Author: Rolf Tueschen
Date: 15:17:10 08/20/05
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On August 20, 2005 at 17:26:25, Martin Müller wrote: >On August 20, 2005 at 16:43:40, Rolf Tueschen wrote: > >>CRAFTY is the winner because it is the only program that is open to challenges >>online over the years and other programmers could even study its source code. If >>CRAFTY THEN wins so many games in the tournament it's the legal winner, because >>it's strong out of itself. Other programs are only strong through their tuning >>on CRAFTY. >> >>Programs like JUNIOR, SJENG, DIEP etc. are a deep deception for CC as such. >>These programs are, although their programmers are most experienced in CC AND >>could tune on CRAFTY, in itself weak and a deception. >> >>The normally strongest program SHREDDER paid its tribute to its programmer's >>hyperactivity by participating in Mainz so shortly before the Wch. >> >>Kudos to Bob Hyatt and his lifelong performance. > > >Hi Rolf, > >Me too, I find it very good to create programs with open source code. However >this is not finally a measure for performance neither does this entitle to be >the moral winner. In championship counts success only. Thanks for your friendly reply. However I must strongly contradict your opinions. Maybe our dissent is partly due to language problems but you misunderstood what I've written. Beyond the fact that the presenting of an open source program for the whole community is representing Bob's value for CC, my argument was a different one. Hope this will be more likely understood now: if a program like CRAFTY is winning so many point in a Wch ALTHOUGH its code is open for many years this PROVES that those who could learn from CRAFTY are incapable of writing own programs which are then stronger than CRAFTY. Only in that relationsship I praised Bob's class. His program has so much strength, that it wins many games against opponents who could have learned from it and hence should be stronger than CRAFTY. This should be the logical consequence. New progs like ZAPPA or FRUIT are NOT available for tunings on the net! At least NOT for so many years. I'm NOT saying that therefore CRAFTY is the "moral winner" of the actual tournament, but I wanted to lead your attention to the enormous handicap CRAFTY had to play with. Being checked by so many other programmers! With your general statement Bob always agreed with. Success is what the points say in the end and that's it. Just for that single event. Not overall and for always. > >Your statement regarding other programs/programmers fails to convince me. For >example Shredder was surely not updated and highly probable would not have been >updated with or without Stefan Meyer-Kahlen's participation in Mainz. How wrong. SMK was always optimally prepared in the past. He always won with a "new" version. With Mainz I mean his commercial attempt of the fen construction too. He was a bit "misleaden" in his attention to say the least. > >What you mean with "deception" regarding the other programs such as Junior >a.s.o. is absolutely unclear. Remembering that JUNIOR once played Kasparov its performance is a deception. But if you look at DIEP, it's an even deeper deception that's right. It's beyond my mind why Vincent is not improving over the years. Compared to his brave style when he tries to prove Bob, the academic, wrong in so many debates. If he knew it all better he surely would be many points ahead in such a tournament - but he isn't. Hear a bell ring? > >If it was the goal to point out the good things on Bob and his product, then >there is no need to do this to the debit of third parties. This is true but this is also not what I've been trying to show. I sopke of "lifelong performance", not just performance. And if you please allow me to inform you, Bob has won already three World Championships in the past. He wasn't always alone the open source man, but he's a Champion. And if his CRAFTY is now doing so fine in such a tournament we should just recognize the wisdom which stands behind such a project. I'm NOT putting the others DOWN by just showing them unsuccessful compared to their chances for so many years. If that doesn't tell the whole truth perhaps the fact does it that CRAFTY is online quasi state of the art from where others and new programmers take their inspirations. If that doesn't prove who's the real inspirator of the whole CC, then I don't know who should be called inspirator. Isn't it sad for us all that nobody could take the inspirations and create a new and better program? And all that before the background that Bob is answering EVERY question here on the net. So, his successes are not ones of a magician but of a solid scientist and teacher. I for one see too little respect for such a performance! Also friendly regards, Rolf > >Kind regards >Martin
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