Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 17:55:19 08/20/05
Go up one level in this thread
On August 20, 2005 at 18:38:59, Arturo Ochoa wrote: > > >This is where you faile. The problem is not complaining in this Forum where you >have an extensive influence. Your action is to address that point with the >organization that regulates the Tournament. I am going to type this _very_ slowly so you can grasp it this time around. This has nothing to do with the result of this tournament. It has nothing to do with Zappa/Anthony. If you ask him you will find that he and I have written a paper together for the JICGA, we have worked on the "annealing auto-tuner" project together, and are continuing that project. It has nothing to do with any single participant. that was point 1. Point 1 is that I _have_ raised this issue. As has Bruce Moreland, John Stanback, and I don't know how many others. All you have to do is search the archives here and you will find _many_ references. This is not new. You will maybe also be surprised to learn that this has been mentioned at multiple WMCCC/WCCC events. So this is not a "sudden hot button". It is a problem that many of us have addressed repeatedly, and the ICGA rules seem to be on our side, but no one seems to enforce them adequately... Now is that simple enough. It is not _just_ about this tournament. It is not just about Zappa's book. I don't give a damn whether his book author could get the book converted or not. That isn't the issue. The issue is the rules. And the rules are quite clear, and ought to be made even clearer. Unfortunately, commercial interests dominate the rest of us and so nothing is likely to be done. But rest assured, many of us will continue to bring this up, because it is simply wrong. > >Now, that the Tournament is quite over. It is not relevant. By the way, I am >explaining a situation of Zappa and Erdogan that I dont have any direct concern >now. That is your short-sightedness. It was relevant years ago when it was first brought up that book authors like Noomen and Kure had developed very high quality books and that these books were being used by multiple programs from the same company in the same tournament. Bruce Moreland said it best, "When I play Rebel and get ripped by Jeroen's book, do I have to face that book a second time when I play Tiger? Why?" It was relevant when this was first raised, probably almost 10 years ago. It was relevant prior to the WCCC. It became relevant during the WCCC when yet another instance of it was mentioned. And it will be relevant for the coming year since it will probably happen again next year... It's not _just_ about this tournament. I can't see for the life of me why you can't make that connection... > >I know all these post-Tournament frustrations to raise complains out of date and >time. Sorry, if the ICGA let the current engine to use an external GUI, the >chess authors are not responsible directly. Using an external GUI is fine, but not if the GUI actually is responsible for playing some of the moves. Then it is no longer a GUI, it an integral part of the chess engine, responsible for 25-35% of the _total moves played_ when you consider that a book line generally goes 15 moves, and most games are decided by move 50-60. Gives the book selection algorithm a _lot_ of influence on the game, would you not say? Now if you use a book where there are only single alternatives, so that there is no "choice" anywhere, then these "pseudo-GUI programs" would be OK. But that is not how most of the books are made, and something has to choose between move A and move B. And that something is playing chess. > > >I doubt that it can be done in 1 week considering the the structure of the ctg >book. Perhaps, you have got the source to do that in 1 day. I don't know... > >Considering the size of the ctg books is just impossible to transfer all the >data in 3 weeks. That I won't argue about. I don't know anything about anybody's book format but mine. With mine, I can convert PGN from enormous.pgn to a book.bin file in about 3 minutes on the opteron. I could write a program (I used to have one but it is gone) that could take my binary book file and produce PGN by walking the book file and printing things as it goes... It would not take me a day to do that... If there was a reason to do so.
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