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Subject: Re: question about definition of clones

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 18:34:42 08/21/05

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On August 21, 2005 at 19:52:41, David Mitchell wrote:

>On August 20, 2005 at 22:06:24, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>Suppose that somebody look at some public source code and decide to write code
>>that does the same algorithm but with different data structure so he cannot use
>>copy and paste for chess tasks.
>>
>>Do you think that the program is a clone or use code of another programmer?
>>Do you think that the programmer should not be allowed to participate in
>>tournaments?
>>
>>Note that my opinion is that the programmer should be allowed to participate
>>because copying ideas unlike copying code is allowed but before even considering
>>to try this idea(I am not sure if I will try it even if it is allowed) I prefer
>>to ask this question.
>
>You didn't put this in a framework, Uri, but let's take an example:
>
>I write a program, it uses the famous Quicksort function, to sort the data. I
>need it because it has a lot of values to sort, and there is no sorting function
>I know that will work as well.
>
>My program is clearly not a clone because it's original, and Quicksort is just a
>small part of it, and was developed for that purpose. It isn't copyrighted.
>
>Now, let's look at a chess program. Mine uses alpha-beta, as does surely
>everyone else's - in one version or another (OK, a few hold-outs use MTD(f), but
>not many). It certainly doesn't make my program a clone!
>
>But note that my program does NOT share the same data structs, or functions, or
>number of functions, or logic flow, or evaluation, or anything else, with that
>of any (known) chess program.
>
>And I don't care if my program should behave EXACTLY like some other program -
>trust me, it's NOTHING if it's not absolutely original. But I didn't re-invent
>alpha beta, just like I didn't re-invent Quicksort, and I'm sure my alpha beta
>function looks about like a lot of other (slow :) ) chess programs, in that
>area.
>
>Using idea's from other programs, or their authors', is fine - that's what
>idea's are for, and you can't copyright or patent, an idea, anyway. You don't
>have to re-invent the wheel.
>
>Ultimately, only your conscience can guide you in this matter. No one will ever
>be able to tell, EXACTLY how many lines of code you copied, or NEARLY copied,
>without the source code, but you'll know.
>
>Especially in the area of logic flow, and evaluation, I think you have to work
>hard and make sure the code is really all your own.
>
>If you really admire Fruit 2.1 or whatever, why not make a flow-chart of some
>functions, and then incorporate some of those idea's, into the code you write
>for your program? Nothing says you can't thank Fabien for the ideas, in your
>program.

I do not think that fruit's evaluation is perfect or close to perfect and I
probably do not plan to have unmodified fruit's evaluation in the code as
default option but I consider to have an option to use fruit's evaluation as a
personality because I think to compare my evaluation  to fruit's evaluation
before accepting my evaluation.

Uri



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