Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 09:32:13 08/24/05
Go up one level in this thread
On August 24, 2005 at 04:01:43, Vincent Lejeune wrote:
>On August 24, 2005 at 03:26:35, Vikrant Malvankar wrote:
>
>>On August 24, 2005 at 03:02:38, Kolss wrote:
>>
>>>On August 24, 2005 at 01:44:39, Vikrant Malvankar wrote:
>>>
>>>>Shredder vs Zappa which i found on www.shredderchess.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>[Event "WCCC"]
>>>>[Site "Reykjavik"]
>>>>[Date "2005.08.20"]
>>>>[Round "9"]
>>>>[White "Shredder"]
>>>>[Black "Zappa"]
>>>>[Result "0-1"]
>>>>
>>>>1. e4 {Buch 0s} c5 {10s} 2. Nf3 {Buch 0s} d6 {9s} 3. d4
>>>>{Buch 0s} cxd4 {9s} 4. Nxd4 {Buch 0s} Nf6 {11s} 5. Nc3
>>>>{Buch 0s} g6 {8s (a6)} 6. Be3 {Buch 0s} Bg7 {8s} 7. f3
>>>>{Buch 0s} O-O {9s} 8. Qd2 {Buch 0s} Nc6 {7s} 9. O-O-O {Buch
>>>>0s} d5 {19s} 10. exd5 {Buch 0s} Nxd5 {11s} 11. Nxc6 {Buch
>>>>0s} bxc6 {11s} 12. Nxd5 {Buch 0s} cxd5 {15s} 13. Bh6 {Buch
>>>>0s} Qc7 {11s (Lxh6)} 14. Bxg7 {+0.87/20 6:31m} Kxg7
>>>>{11:10m} 15. h4 {+0.66/21 0s} h5 {9:54m} 16. Re1 {+0.64/20
>>>>0s} Rb8 {6:08m (e5)} 17. g4 {+0.70/18 3:43m} hxg4 {8:34m
>>>>(Th8)} 18. h5 {+0.55/19 7:46m} Qb6 {8s (Th8)} 19. c3
>>>>{+0.55/17 2:57m} Rh8 {2:23m}
>>>>
>>>>Curiously the next 3 moves r played in 3 to 4 and max. 59 sec. time at
>>>>relatively low depths of 17 and 18 while in all the other games depth of
>>>>Shredder wasatleasst 21 to 22 in middlegame.
>>>>
>>>>20. fxg4 {+0.41/17 51s} Bxg4
>>>>{4:14m} 21. h6+ {+0.18/18 4s} Kf8 {2:50m} 22. b3 {+0.14/18
>>>>59s} Rc8 {5:17m (Dc5)}
>>>>
>>>>23. Kb2 {+0.26/18 6:07m} d4 {3:35m}
>>>>
>>>>6 minutes thinking time bt still depth 18 on this move?
>>>>
>>>>24. c4 {-0.08/19 1:15m} Bf5 {1:24m}
>>>>
>>>>whereas 1 min. thinking time for depth 19 after only 1 move?
>>>>
>>>>25. Bd3 {-0.06/18
>>>>4:39m} Bxd3 {7s} 26. Qxd3 {-0.09/19 2:26m} Qd6 {16s}
>>>>27. Qd2 {-0.18/18 3:27m} Rh7 {2:56m (f5)} 28. Qg5 {-0.14/17
>>>>3:00m} f5 {3:03m (Tc5)} 29. Ref1 {-0.13/18 5:44m} Rc5
>>>>{3:03m (De6)} 30. Qg2 {-0.88/18 5:48m} Kf7 {1:53m} 31. Rf2
>>>>{-1.19/17 2:49m} Qf6 {1:54m (e5)} 32. Rff1 {-1.20/18 7:02m}
>>>>a5 {12s} 33. Qa8 {-1.04/18 1:30m} g5 {2:49m} 34. Kc2
>>>>{-1.70/18 4:36m} Re5 {6s (f4)} 35. Kc1 {-1.80/17 2:47m} g4
>>>>{1:57m (f4)} 36. Kd1 {-2.38/17 4:21m} Rh8 {11s (d3)}
>>>>37. Qg2 {-3.22/18 3:47m} d3 {12s} 38. Qf2 {-3.22/17 3:46m}
>>>>a4 {6s} 39. Qh4 {-4.43/15 8:08m} Re2 {2:11m} 40. Qxf6+
>>>>{-11.89/17 7:15m} exf6 {8s} 41. b4 {-9.30/21 2:56m} Rxa2
>>>>{2:11m} 0-1
>>>>
>>>>Ofcourse i may be wrong bt. what i think is all the depths are relatively low
>>>>when compared to other games.
>>>>Ofcourse Zappa played very well to take over in this game. :)
>>>>
>>>>Regards
>>>>
>>>>Vikrant Malvankar
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>Search depth in a real game highly depends on whether the last move of the
>>>opponent was expected or not, i.e. pondering plays a cricital role. If the
>>>previous move was expected ("correct" pondering), you reach much higher depths
>>>than if the previous move was unexpected ("incorrect" pondering), as in the
>>>latter case, you have to start searching from the start again.
>>>
>>>E.g., in move 23 Shredder had pondered on the wrong move, had to restart again,
>>>and thus "only" reached 18 ply. In move 24, Shredder had already pondered on the
>>>correct move for 3:35 minutes, so the time it used was actually the 1:15m plus
>>>3:35 = 4:50. On top of that, you always have fluctuations; e.g., pondering on a
>>>trivial move or just having very few options oneself increases search depth.
>>>
>>>Hope this helps...
>>>
>>>Best regards - Munjong.
>>
>>Thanks
>>bt in other games i saw avg. depths of 21 to 23 , so was Zappa playing
>>unexpected moves?
>
>
>I suppose because in this game, the position is sery open (QRR can move on many
>square in some moves), so, the pruning factor is lower and branching factor is
>higher.
Also open boards with just rooks and queens is a hard position to search. Most
of the moves do not get pruned away as futile since there are not lots of pawn
scas and piece sacs left to play. I saw this same slowdown in Crafty in one of
the games where it ended up in a rooks + pawns type ending. They just don't
search as quickly there...
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