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Subject: Re: Fruit Reykjavic

Author: Christos Gitsis

Date: 15:14:59 08/24/05

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On August 24, 2005 at 16:56:56, Frank Mueller wrote:

>On August 24, 2005 at 14:43:39, Christos Gitsis wrote:
>
>>On August 24, 2005 at 06:04:33, Frank Mueller wrote:
>>
>>>On August 24, 2005 at 04:10:36, Fabien Letouzey wrote:
>>>
>>>>There is also the insufficiency (IMO) of the GPL in the chess case that I have
>>>>to ponder on (pun intended).
>>>
>>>I don't understand that. You deliberately decided to publish under GPL, thus all
>>>consequences were/are conceivable. And publishing under GPL doesn't imply that
>>>you -- as author of Fruit -- have to waive all your rights.
>>>
>>>Frank
>>
>>In June, when Fruit 2.1 was released, Shredder was undisputed number 1 and about
>>100 elo stronger than any free engine. Fritz, Junior, Hiarcs etc were also
>>clearly stronger than the free engines (perhaps with the exception of Toga II
>>0.93).
>>
>>It was not conceivable to me at that time that two months later there would have
>>appeared so many new strong engines that there is no knowing which one is the
>>strongest. But this is the current situation, and it probably is not irrelevant
>>to the prior release of Fruit 2.1.
>>
>>Obviously a program released under the GPL is vulnerable to people who take and
>>don't give back (ideas). Not everyone is interested in sharing of ideas and
>>progress of computer chess - some people are just interested in making their
>
>You can't avoid that, some people are cooperative, others are not -- like in all
>fields of life. GPL doesn't require that a modified software goes through the
>original author and there is some good reason for that (what will happen, for
>example, if the original author won't react after such user input?). Moreover,
>users have the *right* to release and distribute their modifications, but you
>can't force them to release; under GPL they are free to use their modifications
>privately.
>
>>engine as strong as they can. And there is no way to know if the programmers of
>>closed-source engines have taken ideas out of Fruit, which combined with their
>>own ideas give them an advantage.
>
>Nobody could prevent such illegal practices, but if they come to light, adequate
>measures could be legally enforced.

I am not sure about that. I was not talking about cases where someone takes the
source code of Fruit and alters it slightly to make a new engine. I meant that
an author of an existing engine can look into the source of Fruit and implement
Fabien's ideas in his "own" engine. He could do that without copying a single
line of code. Is this illegal according to the GPL?

>>All the above really give a lot to ponder on, and I can understand Fabien's
>>decision.
>
>Maybe, Fabien wasn't completely aware of all rights and obligations under GPL.
>But even if he feels uncomfortable now, the things happened and he will look
>ahead. And everybody will respect Fabien's decisions and appreciate his courtesy
>giving the computer chess community something important for free which contains
>a lot of his time and energy. IMO, in the long run, the assets of free software
>will (also in computer chess) outweigh the drawbacks.
>
>>I would like to add that I am a fan of open-source software and a Linux user.
>
>Frank



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