Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Clones and moral behavior

Author: Peter Kappler

Date: 17:50:42 08/24/05

Go up one level in this thread


On August 24, 2005 at 18:45:24, Rolf Tueschen wrote:

>On August 24, 2005 at 18:19:44, Peter Kappler wrote:
>
>>>No, but I must contradict your conclusion. That he's 3 points behind Tiger15.
>>>Please read the nice articles by Heinz van Kempen who made clear how many games
>>>should be played before anything could be said. GLAURUNG has much too little
>>>games to be seriously compared with Tiger15. It's 50 games vs 2000. Makes no
>>>sense.
>>
>>The errors bars are right there next to the rating.  With a high degree of
>>confidence you can say that it is between 2600-2700 on that list.  Strong enough
>>to be one of the top amateur programs.
>
>Not at all. You underestimate the meaning of the number of games. You can't
>conclude anything for 50 games in a list with almost all with 2000 games and
>more. The listing is false not the degrees of confidence.
>

It's 93 games, not 50.  Perhaps you are confusing the error bars with the number
of games played?

Lets check back in a month and see how much the rating has changed.  I'll bet
it's within the range predicted by the current list.


>
>>
>>>But I see that you are really interested in such tests and therefore
>>>please try to find answers to my questions. One of them is an old one about
>>>RUFFIAN. When this program came out in its first version it was a sensation
>>>because it beat FRITZ etc. What is your idea about why RUFFIAN has declined so
>>>much now when it was almost among the leading best earlier ago? Could you give
>>>me some reasons?
>>
>>I haven't followed Ruffian closely, but my impression is that a new version has
>>not been released in quite a long time.  That would certainly explain why recent
>>versions of Fritz are pulling ahead of it.
>
>Not only FRITZ, all the other progs too. How is that possible if RUFFIAN was
>formerly so strong?
>

The same reasoning applies to all the other engines on the list.  If they are
being developed actively, and Ruffian isn't, you should expect to see them
slowly pull ahead.


>
>>
>>>
>>>And again to Tord. How, if he's successfully implementing all the older stuff,
>>>could it be that after an almost job of 10 years Tord isn't succeeding in
>>> making a top notch program? What could be the reasons?
>>
>>Well, now it is my turn to contradict your conclusion.  In what way is it not a
>>top-notch program?  Out of hundreds, maybe thousands of amateur chess
>>programmers, his program is easily among the top 10.
>
>
>
>No this is wrong as I tried to explain above.
>

Maybe, maybe not.  But it's not really so interesting to argue about our
different definitions of "top-notch".

>
>
>
>>
>>
>>> If others like LIST or Jonny
>>>need much less time to develop. The same among the commercial programs we have
>>>the case of DIEP which is also always a long distance away from the top although
>>>VD is a strong chessplayer. What are the reasons for such results?
>>>
>>
>>Sadly, there seems to not be much correlation between a programmer's
>>chess-playing ability and the strength of their engine.  As Tord wrote in
>>another post, programming talent and drive are the key factors.
>
>
>That is known but my question was directed to the apparent contradiction. If all
>the features are implemented why then there is no progress for progs like DIEP?
>Ok, all that asked for being short.


If you want my honest opinion about Vincent and Diep, I'll give it, but only in
a private email...

-Peter




This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.