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Subject: Re: Positions from the WCCC2005: Deep Sjeng - Zappa

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 10:28:18 08/26/05

Go up one level in this thread


On August 26, 2005 at 13:05:15, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:

>On August 26, 2005 at 12:48:30, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On August 26, 2005 at 09:04:06, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>
>>>On August 26, 2005 at 08:36:40, Bernhard Bauer wrote:
>>>
>>>>Here is what I get from Crafty19.20 for your second position.
>>>>A zugzwang position in a real game!
>>>
>>>>                                    Rb8
>>>>                8     0.34     -1   1. Rb1
>>>>                8     0.36  -3.53   1. Rb1 Rxd3 2. Qxd3 Qg4 3. Rb8+ Kc7
>>>>                                    4. Qc4+ Bc5 5. Rc8+ Kxc8 6. Qg8+ Kb7
>>>>                                    7. Qxg7+
>>>
>>>Some bug here?? The analysis is bogus, the line given is an easy draw, not a win
>>>for black.
>>
>>I suggest you look again.  This is _not_ an "easy" draw.  This is an easy mate
>>in 3 for black...
>>
>>Not sure who has the bug, but it isn't me.  :)
>>
>>I spotted this easily as a human, so even though Crafty doesn't see it on the
>>end of that shallow search, -3.5 is certainly good enough to convince it that
>>black is better.  _much_ better..
>>
>>BTW, after Qxg7, Kb6 and white can't avoid Qxe4#.  He can put it off by a spite
>>check tossing his queen, but that's it...
>
>ROTFL
>
>It's a stalemate. Those are draws where I live. The *goal* is exactly to get rid
>of all pieces "with spite checks tossing the queen".

Note that it isn't a stalemate if you follow the entire PV.  And that is what
the thing evaluated...

If the search ends on a ply where black or white has no legal moves, then it
isn't going to see that.  But another ply deeper (next iteration) will reveal
the fact.  Checks in q-search won't solve that.  What if there _are_ no checks,
you just reach the q-search stalemated?  You return the static eval, which is
wrong, and hopefully fix this the next iteration where you will still have a ply
of real search to do after that position is reached...


>
>The last move in Crafty's variation is wrong, white can just play moves like
>Qc8+ etc...
>
>As I said, I forgot Crafty can't understand that because of how you do qsearch.
>
>--
>GCP


You miss the point.  By not doing checks in the q-search, I get far deeper more
quickly.  So I don't have to live with a .3 second 8 ply search, I would have
gotten a 17 ply search here instead...



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