Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 18:10:49 02/25/99
Go up one level in this thread
On February 25, 1999 at 11:58:28, Ed Schröder wrote: >>Posted by Vincent Diepeveen on February 25, 1999 at 07:01:54: > >>>It's more likely Rebel9 did not learn because the Swedish test without the >>>"A" option. Some 6-7 months ago I went through the Rebel9 SSDF games >>>to verify this. I stopped counting after 100 games. Rebel9's learning (in >>>auto232 mode) was disabled in all these games. >> >>Ed, in that case i would shoot all SSDF members that did it. >> >>You provide the option to test without it, and they use it vs fritz. >>However, the email i received from Karlsson confirms that Fritz5 >>would have disabled learning anyway. >> >>>>Even more important than disallowing learning is the fact that only fritz5 >>>>auto232 player can collect the results. >>>> >>>>Let me give an example what happened. >>>> >>>>I got about 6 months ago a call from a tester who played around 20 games at >>>>auto232 player against Rebel9. >>>> >>>>He told me that i should stop chessprogram development, as my program >>>>didn't win a single game versus rebel9. >>>> >>>>So i first asked whether all games were more or less the same (learning >>>>from rebel9 you never know...). He told me clearly that the games were >>>>not the same as he turned off learning. >>>> >>>>This confused me. How can one not win a SINGLE Game vs rebel9? >>>>It was quickly solved when i got back the games. >>>> >>>>Diep won lucky several games, but those games were long. The games it >>>>lost were short (short after book). Diep was mated within say 50 moves >>>>or something. The games diep won were all 60 moves, after which the >>>>auto232 game stopped the games. However none of the games diep had >>>>mated rebel9. Further a big bunch of the games were clear draws, or >>>>3 fold repetition. >>>> >>>>Now diep doesn't collect game results. Rebel does, and the WAY in >>>>which it does caused the confusion that diep didn't win a single game: >>>> >>>>rebel9 screen showed a questionmark where diep won the game, >>>>and some draws got a questionmark too. Where rebel9 was winning, or >>>>had mated diep, it showed that rebel won. >>> >>>Well Vincent... there are enough people who can confirm the below >>>description of Rebel9 being in auto232 mode. I think you either have >>>your facts wrong or you are not so good informed. The text is taken >>>from the Rebel Home Page. >> >>No i am very well informed and what you say confirms this. >> >>Games get stopped at 60 moves. Then the games diep is winning are >>less than -5 for rebel, so rebel gives questionmark. > >If games stop at move 60 that's because auto232 has been started >with /m60. I know only one person who tests like this :-) > >And of course if a game is aborted and doesn't have a -5.00 or +5.00 >score the game is marked as "?" (result unknown) and the screen >isn't updated. > > >>>I think you just forgot to create a "new Rebel database" before you >>>started auto232. As a result you were investigating old games from >>>previous auto232 matches too. >> >>No ed this didn't happen. What happened was that rebel when winning >>wins quickly, and when losing needs a long time to lose. That says something >>about book and toughness of rebel, and the internal evaluation of it. >> >>So this mistake was made by reading the screen of your database, and >>your algorithm exactly reflects why it happened. > >Total score from the database always reflects the match score on the >screen. The score on the screen is nice for an indication but after an >auto232 session you have to go to all games manually anyway and >edit all the "?" (result unknown) cases by hand. > >I always use the default auto232 setting "/m100". In your case (using /m60) >the error rate is of course very high as there will be many games terminated >with scores like +1.xx or -2.xx. And then what? It's not always clear to judge >such games. Better use "/m100" IMO as it pays off in the end. Easy to judge for me. don't forget i have over 1000 rating points more than you. So /m60 is well enough. >Ed
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