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Subject: Re: Zappa UCI: You are all a bunch of HYPOCRITES

Author: Juan Pablo Naar C.

Date: 15:32:25 09/04/05

Go up one level in this thread


On September 04, 2005 at 17:39:28, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:

>There, I said it.
>
>I can't believe what I'm reading in the "Zappa retail no UCI whine whine"
>thread. 95% of the people posting in that thread are or have always been happily
>using Junior, Fritz, Hiarcs, Nimzo and ChessTiger versions which only run under
>1 interface.

That's because the Chessbase GUI is the most user-friendly interface, and the
easiest to use. More people look at this than the "heavily bugs".

>The ChessBase interface has historically always had SEVERE bugs in UCI and/or
>WinBoard support which coincidencially always handicapped the external engines.
>Yes, some of the most visible bugs have been fixed, but the interface still has
>many left[1] and I am sure other ones will 'accidentally' be introduced again in
>the future.

I agree on this, the Chessbase GUI has bugs, but so the other GUIs. The Arena
GUI has serious bugs too, the Shredder Classic GUI may have them too and the CP
GUI is annoying as hell to play engine matches because of that ERT.

Based on this no GUI can take serious results, so to look for "serious results"
you will have to play ALL moves manually! Or just do like Leo and play them all
on the Winboard GUI, but even this could cause trouble because you never know if
PolyGlot has bugs (because it's an adapter)

So what can people do and are doing? Just test the engines on those "buggy" GUIs
and see which is better playing on that interfaces and I mean Arena, CB, CP, SC.

>You are really asking all engine authors to BEND OVER for their competitor, so
>THEY have to work around the bugs of ChessBase and, if they are very lucky, then
>perhaps be able to play some games without too much handicap (book, learning) in
>the competitors GUI.

I would do that if I were Anthony, or whichever author. That would bring me more
positive results for people playing at that GUI.

>Don't give me any crap about Arena or Shredder, I know 95% of you is really
>using Fritz so you can test against CB engines. I can easily tell from the
>support questions.

That is true, but what guarantees you that Arena or Shredder doesn't have any
heavy bug, even heavier than CB's?

>I asked Vincent and he confirmed that his GUI *does* support UCI correctly, so
>you can still play your beloved UCI engines against Zappa *in it's own GUI*.
>What, not happy because you can't test Fritz against Zappa easily? Well, tough
>luck. Why did you buy Fritz or Junior anyway as it has NEVER supported playing
>in anything else than it's native interface? And now you are complaining about
>Zappa? Can you spell "HYPOCRITE"?

Hahaha, guarantee me that Vincent's GUI will handle UCI engines correctly and
without heavy bugs. And guarantee me that Vincent's GUI won't be doing that
handicap thingy you are talking about the Chessbase's GUI, since Zappa and Diep
won't be UCI engines, right?

If this "apart protocolism" continues, we will have 3 leading own protocols, the
ChessPartner, the Chessbase and the DiepGUI. People who are doing engine matches
and tournaments surely don't want that, they have enough with one apart protocol
that is the Chessbase's and that is the one they are used to, they won't change
to ChessPartner or to DiepGUI.

>At least this way we can perhaps get some INNOVATION and NEW FEATURES inside a
>GUI. I have been here long enough that I remember the time when there was really
>competition in that area, and a new release brought something special, something
>new in terms of features. This is GONE with the hegemony of ChessBase GUI's and
>it CANNOT be restored if one sells engines just so they can run under Yet
>Another Buggy ChessBase GUI.

People who buy chess programs don't look at the nice coloured GUI, they look at
the engine (well, most of us). The GUI market is already dominated by
Chessmaster and that surely won't change.

>I am very curious to see Zappa be released commercially and will certainly buy
>it not only for the engine, but also to see what FEATURES the GUI can offer.

I highly doubt that the GUI will be so interesting and innovative that people
will buy it against the UCI engine.

>It's already very said that computer chess has been damaged so much by the
>hegemony of one vendor and now you, users, are ASKING for it to be continued.
>Are you really so blind, so shortsighted, and so DUMB that you cannot see that
>another interface also offers many ADVANTAGES?

What advantages are you talking about? New features? Innovation?

>So please, all the !#%&(%* that are saying they won't buy Zappa if it doesn't do
>UCI: go buy Fritz 9 and enoy your HUMAN-OPTIMIZED ALL NEW IMPROVED MORE
>KNOWLEDGE INTENSIVE CRASHES ONLY EVERY 5 MINUTES CHESSPROGRAM THAT DOESNT
>SUPPORT UCI ANYWAY!

Many will do that, and you can't stop them.

>Meanwhile, sane people can enjoy a game against the WORLD CHAMPION in a new GUI
>that I am very curious to see.

WORLD CHAMPION only in that quad, not in whichever hardware.

JPN.

>--
>GCP



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