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Subject: Re: Good position - comment and slight correction

Author: Roy Brunjes

Date: 18:27:06 09/09/05

Go up one level in this thread


On September 09, 2005 at 20:27:54, Dieter Buerssner wrote:

>On September 08, 2005 at 12:31:10, Albert Silver wrote:
>
>>Still, even if one advances these moves, where 3.Kh6 is indeed the only winning
>>move, you're correct about the difficulty for engines.
>>
>>[D]5k2/5p1K/P2p1p2/1B2pP2/3bP2P/8/8/8 w - - 0 3
>>
>>3.h5 clearly throws away any chance of a win, yet I just saw Shredder 8 (don't
>>have v.9), Junior 9, DF8, and Hiarcs 9 all chooose it. I'll just note that Fruit
>>2.1 drops h5 for Kh6 after about 2 seconds.
>
>Albert (or anybody else=, can you show some analysis lines of Fruit for this
>pos?
>
>Yace nees a long time ...
>
> 668520401 11:40.8   0.98 28.  3.Bc6 Ba7 4.Kh8 Bd4 5.Bd5 Be3 6.Bb7 Bd4 7.Kh7
>                               Be3 8.h5 Bd4 9.Bd5 Be3 10.Bc4 Bd4 11.h6 Be3
>                               12.Kh8 Bd4 13.Bd3 Be3 14.Kh7
>1044772924 18:51.4   0.99 29t  3.Bc6 Ba7 4.Kh8 Bd4 5.Bd5 Be3 6.Bb7 Bd4 7.Kh7
>                               Be3 8.h5 Bd4 9.Bd5 Be3 10.Bc4 Bd4 11.h6 Be3
>                               12.Kh8 Bd4 13.Bd3 Be3 14.Kh7 Bc5 15.Bb5 Be3
>                               16.Bc4 Ke7 17.Bd5 {0}
>1146164333 20:35.4   0.99 29.  3.Bc6 Ba7 4.Kh8 Bd4 5.Bd5 Be3 6.Bb7 Bd4 7.Kh7
>                               Be3 8.h5 Bd4 9.Bd5 Be3 10.Bc4 Bd4 11.h6 Be3
>                               12.Kh8 Bd4 13.Bd3 Be3 14.Kh7 Bc5 15.Bb5 Be3
>                               16.Bc4 Ke7 17.Bd5 {0}
>2078651734 38:30.1   0.99 30t  3.Bc6 Ba7 4.Kh8 Bd4 5.Bd5 Be3 6.Bb7 Ba7 7.Kh7
>                               Bd4 {HT}
>2317340930 42:48.3   1.00 30t+ 3.Bc4 Ba7 4.h5 Ke7
>2654851941 48:48.0   1.00 30t  3.Bc4 Ba7 4.h5 Bb8H {HT}
>3149578469 58:15.1   1.01 30t+ 3.h5 Ba7 4.Bc4 Bd4
>3162803564 58:29.2   1.01 30t  3.h5 Ba7 4.Bc4 {HT}
> 101275029 1:20:04   1.02 30t+ 3.Kh6 Ba7 4.Kh5 Bd4
> 895704143 1:33:30   1.39 30++ 3.Kh6 Ba7 4.Kh5 Bd4
>1779136065 1:48:11   2.39 30++ 3.Kh6 Ba7 4.Kh5 Bd4 5.Be2 Ba7
>2646313273 2:02:42   2.39 30t  3.Kh6 Ba7 4.Kh5 Kg7H 5.Be2H {HT}
>2835001603 2:06:00   2.39 30.  3.Kh6 Ba7 4.Kh5 Kg7 5.Be2
> 810842047 2:44:45   2.61 31t  3.Kh6 Ba7 4.Kh5 Kg7 5.Kg4 Bb6 6.Kf3 Kh6 7.Ke2
>                               Kh5 8.Kd3 Kxh4 9.Kc4 Bc5 10.Be8 Kg3 11.Bxf7 Ba7
>                               12.Kb5 Kh4 13.Bd5 Bf2 14.Kc6 Kg3 15.Kb7 Kf3
>                               16.a7 Bxa7 {HT} {-80}
>1201438911 2:51:39   2.61 31.  3.Kh6 Ba7 4.Kh5 Kg7 5.Kg4 Bb6 6.Kf3 Kh6 7.Ke2
>                               Kh5 8.Kd3 Kxh4 9.Kc4 Bc5 10.Be8 Kg3 11.Bxf7 Ba7
>                               12.Kb5 Kh4 13.Bd5 Bf2 14.Kc6 Kg3 15.Kb7 Kf3
>                               16.a7 Bxa7 {HT} {-80}
> 823366282 3:59:04   2.70 32t  3.Kh6 Ba7 4.Kh5 Kg7 5.Kg4 Bb6 6.Kf3 Kh6 7.Ke2
>                               Kh5 8.Bc4 Kxh4 9.Bxf7 {HT}
>1358772169 4:08:40   2.70 32.  3.Kh6 Ba7 4.Kh5 Kg7 5.Kg4 Bb6 6.Kf3 Kh6 7.Ke2
>                               Kh5 8.Bc4 Kxh4 9.Bxf7
>3513748656 6:01:57   3.10 33++ 3.Kh6 Ba7 4.Kh5 Kg7 5.Kg4 Bb6 6.Kf3 Kh6 7.Ke2
>                               Kh5 8.Bc4 Kxh4 9.Bxf7 Kg3 10.Kd3 Kf4 11.Bd5 Bf2
>                               12.Kc4 Ba7 13.Kb5 Bc5 14.Kc6 Ke3 15.Kb7 Kf2
>
>Regards,
>Dieter


Dieter,

Here is Fruit 2.1 analysis after about 1.5 minutes :

FEN: 5k2/5p1K/P2p1p2/1B2pP2/3bP2P/8/8/8 w - - 0 3

Fruit 2.1:
  1/1	00:00	           2	0	+0.86	h5
  2/3	00:00	          31	0	+0.68	h5 Ke7
  3/5	00:00	          95	0	+0.86	h5 Ke7 h6
  4/5	00:00	         208	0	+0.82	h5 Ke7 h6 Be3
  5/6	00:00	         610	0	+1.02	h5 Bf2 h6 Be3 Bc4
  6/8	00:00	       1.127	0	+0.86	h5 Bf2 h6 Be3 Bc4 Ke7
  7/9	00:00	       2.547	0	+1.05	h5 Bf2 h6 Bd4 Kh8 Be3 h7 Ke7
  8/11	00:00	       5.599	0	+0.86	h5 Bf2 h6 Bd4 Bd3 Be3 Bc4 Ke7
  9/12	00:00	       9.096	0	+1.08	h5 Bf2 h6 Bd4 Bc4 Be3 Bd5 Bd4 Kh8
 10/16	00:00	      15.355	0	+0.94	h5 Bf2 h6 Bd4 Bc4 Be3 Be2 Bf2 Kh8 Ke7
 11/16	00:00	      22.740	0	+1.08	h5 Bf2 h6 Bd4 Kh8 Be3 Bc4 Bd4 h7 Be3 Bd5 Ke7
 12/29	00:00	      32.541	0	+1.08	h5 Bf2 h6 Bd4 Kh8 Be3 Ba4 Bd4 Bc6 Ke7 Kg7 Be3
 13/29	00:00	      43.623	0	+1.05	h5 Bf2 h6 Bd4 Kh8 Be3 Bc4 Bd4 Be2 Be3 Kh7 Bd4
Bc4
 14/29	00:00	     119.534	0	+0.99	h5 Bf2 h6 Bd4 Bd3 Bc5 Kh8 Be3 Bb5 d5 exd5 e4
Kh7 Ke7
 15/29	00:00	     143.159	0	+1.04	h5 Bf2 h6 Bd4 Bd3 Bc5 Kh8 Be3 Bb5 Bd4 Bc4 Be3
Kh7 Bd4 Bd5
 16/32	00:00	     246.303	0	+1.00	h5 Bf2 h6 Bd4 Bd3 Bc5 Kh8 Be3 Bb5 Bf2 Bc4 Bd4
Ba2 Bg1 Bb3 Be3
 17/32	00:00	     294.314	0	+1.02	h5 Bf2 h6 Bd4 Bd3 Bc5 Kh8 Be3 Bb5 Bf2 Bc4 Bd4
Kh7 Bc5 Bd3 Be3 Bc4
 18/41	00:01	   1.068.625	1.038.961	+0.98	h5 Bf2 h6 Bd4 Bd3 Bc5 Kh8 Be3 Be2 Bc5
Kh7 Bd4 Bf1 Bc5 Bc4 Bf2 Kh8 Ke7
 19/41	00:01	   1.390.344	1.033.705	+0.98	h5 Bf2 h6 Bd4 Bd3 Bc5 Kh8 Be3 Be2 Bc5
Kh7 Bb6 Bd1 Bf2 Bc2 Bd4 Ba4 Be3 Bb5
 19/41	00:02	   2.510.384	1.063.405	+1.07	Kh6 Bf2 Kh5 Ke7 Kg4 Kf8 h5 Kg7 Bc4 Bd4
Kf3 Bc5 Bb3 Bb6 Bd5 Bc5 Ke2 Bd4 Kd3
 20/41	00:03	   3.134.612	1.065.941	+1.07	Kh6 Bf2 Kh5 Ke7 Kg4 Kf8 h5 Kg7 Bc4 Bd4
Kf3 Bc5 Bb3 Bb6 Ke2 Bc5 Bd5 Bb6 Kd3 Bd4
 21/41	00:04	   3.962.372	1.067.008	+1.07	Kh6 Bf2 Kh5 Ke7 Kg4 Kf8 h5 Kg7 Bc4 Bd4
Kf3 Bc5 Bb3 Bb6 Ke2 Bc5 Bd5 Bb6 Kd2 Bd4 Kd3
 22/49	00:07	   6.889.939	1.020.273	+1.07	Kh6 Bf2 Kh5 Ke7 Kg4 Kf8 h5 Kg7 Bc4 Bd4
Kf3 Bc5 Bb3 Bb6 Ke2 Bc5 Bd5 Bb6 Kd2 Bf2 Kd3 Bd4
 23/49	00:09	   9.450.307	1.026.266	+1.07	Kh6 Bf2 Kh5 Ke7 Kg4 Kf8 Kf3 Bd4 Kg2
Kg7 Kg3 Bc5 Kf3 Bd4 Kg4 Bc5 h5 Be3 Bc4 Bd4 Kf3 Bc5 Kg4
 24/51	00:12	  12.830.331	1.034.339	+1.07	Kh6 Bf2 Kh5 Ke7 Kg4 Kf8 Kf3 Bd4 Kg2
Kg7 Kg3 Bc5 Kf3 Bd4 h5 Bb6 Bc4 Bd4 Bb3 Bc5 Bd5 Bd4 Bc4 Bc5
 25/53	00:21	  20.821.734	1.003.043	+1.07	Kh6 Bf2 Kh5 Ke7 Kg4 Kf8 Kf3 Bd4 Kg2
Kg7 Kg3 Bc5 Kf3 Kf8 h5 Kg7 Kg4 Be3 Bc4 Bf2 Kf3 Bd4 Bb3 Bc5 Bc4
 26/57	01:19	  76.622.119	966.489	+1.06	Kh6 Bf2 Kh5 Ke7 Kg4 Kf8 Kf3 Bd4 Kg2 Kg7
Kg3 Bc5 Kg4 Bd4 Bc4 Be3 Kf3 Bd4 h5 Bc5 Bb3 Bb6 Bd5 Bd4 Ke2 Bb6

Not that big a difference in eval between h5 and Kh6 it seems, but still Kh6 is
preferred by Fruit.

Hardware: Centrino 1.5 GHz 256 MB RAM for hashtables for Fruit.

Roy



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