Author: Mridul Muralidharan
Date: 21:36:15 09/17/05
Go up one level in this thread
On September 17, 2005 at 23:53:05, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On September 17, 2005 at 22:33:58, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: > >>On September 17, 2005 at 17:02:09, ALI MIRAFZALI wrote: >> >>Take a time control of 40 in 2 with pocket fritz against crafty without nullmove >>and give crafty factor 1000 in nps extra. >> >>Deep Blue didn't use nullmove either. > >What does null move have to do with it? > >In 1996 there wasn't a computer on the planet that could beat deep blue. This >is almost 10 years later. > >What is the point of this discussion??? > >Just a very lame attempt at starting a flame war, about a statement I supposedly >made? (a statement I did _not_ make by the way)... > I dont know about the flamewar part (I thought Vincent did not start the thread) , but the 'without null move part' might be referring to the fact of deep blue not using it. Actually a good test would be : 1) 1000x nps advantage 2) No null move 3) Use full singular extension as 'explained' by them. I suspect (3) _will_ kill your search and keep the searchdepths much below what the pocket fritz will get :) So , even though Deep blue might have been invicible from programs of that age's standards - it will get royally kicked around by even weak amateur programs of today (bugfree ones ofcourse) running on modern hardware ! Regards, Mridul > >> >>>On September 17, 2005 at 10:29:08, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On September 17, 2005 at 10:04:32, ALI MIRAFZALI wrote: >>>> >>>>>Hyatt has claimed many times that a Nodes Per Second Factor of one thousand >>>>>times would not be overcome by the program with the less Nodes per second.In >>>>>this Experiment it was shown conclusively that this is false .Although I played >>>>>4 games ,I do not think the result would have been different if I had played a >>>>>hundred more.Time Control 40 MOVES IN 2 HOURS followed by sudden death in 1 >>>>>hour.Hardware: GNU CHESS 4.11 a program from 1996 ran a celeron 1.8 Gig machine >>>>>;Chess Tiger on Palm ran on the Palm Tungten E.NODES PER SECOND:ON THE >>>>>AVERAGE:CHESSTIGER ON PALM 500 per second ,GNU CHESS 4.11 500000 per second on >>>>>the celeron 1.8 Gig.1000X DIFFERENCE.Hyatt and some other people have always >>>>>argued about the supremecy of DeepBlue based on its speed.I think these days >>>>>these arguments are false;and Speed does not mean as much as it used to.Deep >>>>>blue would be crushed by todays program's.A lot of STRENGTH is EVALUATION >>>>>FUNCTION.Take a look at these games: >>>>>Match ended in 2-2 draw. >>>>> >>>>>[Event "?"] >>>>>[Site "?"] >>>>>[Date "2005.09.17"] >>>>>[Round ""] >>>>>[White "CHESS 4.11, GNU"] >>>>>[Black "Tiger on Palm, Chess"] >>>>>[Result "0-1"] >>>>> >>>>>1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5.d4 d5 >>>>>6.Bd3 Bd6 7.O-O O-O 8.c4 c6 9.cxd5 cxd5 10.Nc3 Nxc3 >>>>>11.bxc3 Qc7 12.Qc2 h6 13.Qb3 Be6 14.Ba3 Bxa3 15.Qxa3 Nc6 >>>>>16.Rae1 Rac8 17.Re3 Bg4 18.h3 Bxf3 19.Rxf3 Rfe8 20.Qb3 Rcd8 >>>>>21.Rb1 Rd7 22.g3 Qd6 23.Qb5 Kf8 24.Rf4 Rc7 25.Qb3 Ne7 >>>>>26.Re1 Rec8 27.Rf3 Rxc3 28.Qxb7 Qc7 29.Qb4 a5 30.Qa4 Nc6 >>>>>31.Rfe3 Rb8 32.Bf1 Rxe3 33.Rxe3 Ne7 34.Rb3 Rxb3 35.axb3 f6 >>>>>36.b4 axb4 37.Qxb4 Ke8 38.Qc5 Qxc5 39.dxc5 Kd7 40.Bb5+ Nc6 >>>>>41.f4 Kc7 42.f5 Nd4 43.Bd3 Kc6 44.Kf2 Kxc5 45.g4 Nb3 >>>>>46.Ke3 d4+ 47.Ke4 Nd2+ 48.Kf4 Kb4 49.h4 Kc3 50.Bb5 Nc4 >>>>>51.Ba4 d3 52.Kf3 Nb2 53.Bb5 d2 54.Be2 Kd4 55.Kf4 d1=Q >>>>>56.Bxd1 Nxd1 57.Kf3 Ne3 58.Kf4 Kd3 59.Kf3 h5 60.gxh5 Nxf5 >>>>>61.Kf4 Nd4 62.Kg3 Ke2 63.Kf4 f5 64.Kg5 Kf3 65.h6 gxh6+ >>>>>66.Kxh6 Kg4 67.Kg6 f4 68.Kh6 f3 69.Kg6 f2 70.Kf6 f1=Q+ >>>>>71.Ke7 Nf5+ 72.Ke8 Qb5+ 73.Kd8 Qb7 74.h5 Kxh5 75.Ke8 Qe7+ >>>>> 0-1 >>>> >>>>looking at the game it seems that gnuchess lost because of tactical blunder. >>>>38.Qc5 is losing a pawn so it is not only bad evaluation of gnuchess but also >>>>weak search algorithm of it. >>>> >>>>Note that testing gnuchess against tiger proves nothing even if you have enough >>>>games and I remember no claim of Hyatt about gnuchess. >>>> >>>>I think that it may be more interesting to test Crafty against FruitWCCC when >>>>Crafty gets 1000:1 time advantage >>>> >>>>Fruit WCCC is very strong and my opinion is that it has a chance to win a long >>>>match at 2 hours/40 moves against Crafty with 10:1 speed advantage for Crafty(in >>>>WCCC it performed clearly better than Crafty inspite of big hardware advantage >>>>for Crafty that was at least 5:1) but I believe that 1000:1 is too much even for >>>>fruit. >>>> >>>>Uri >>>Uri >>>It is not that he claimed anything about GNU in particular;but was only talking >>>about the 1000:1 factor. Please note the difference
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