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Subject: Re: ACM1994

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 17:56:16 09/18/05

Go up one level in this thread


On September 18, 2005 at 14:51:03, A. Cozzie wrote:

>On September 18, 2005 at 14:47:26, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On September 18, 2005 at 14:38:27, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On September 18, 2005 at 13:59:18, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 18, 2005 at 12:00:09, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On September 18, 2005 at 10:45:19, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>># Name 1 2 3 4 5 P BU SB G
>>>>>1 Deep Thought II 2w1  5b0  7w1  3b1  5b1  4  13½ 11  5
>>>>>2 Zarkov          1b0  6b1  4w1  5b=  3w1  3½ 15  9¾ 5
>>>>>3 Star Socrates   10w1 7b1  5w1  1w0  2b0  3  12½ 5  5
>>>>>4 Now             6w=  10b= 2b0  8w1  9b1  3  10½ 5½ 5
>>>>>5 Mchess Pro      8b1  1w1  3b0  2w=  1w0  2½ 16½ 7¾ 5
>>>>>6 Cray Blitz      4b=  2w0  9w1  7b0  10w1 2½ 11  4  5
>>>>>7 Wchess 9w1      3w0  1b0  6w1  8b0       2  13½ 4½ 5
>>>>>8 Evaluator       5w0  9b0  10w1 4b0  7w1  2  10  2½ 5
>>>>>9 Innovation II   7b0  8w1  6b0  10b1 4w0  2  10  2½ 5
>>>>>10 Spector        3b0  4w=  8b0  9w0  6b0  ½ 12½ 1½ 5
>>>>>
>>>>>Zarkov from those days had no problems beating your 3 million nps Cray Blitz.
>>>>>Nor had Wchess problems beating your 3 million nps Cray Blitz.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Ask John about the game.  First, this was a 500K program for rounds 2-4.  And
>>>>when you ask him, he'll tell you about our rather severe crash problem due to a
>>>>missing test to limit ply to 64 or less.  And in a couple of cute places, we
>>>>went beyond that limit, crashed, and burned.  We fixed it for the last round,
>>>>but it really didn't matter to the final results.
>>>>
>>>>But notice the issue was about deep thought, _not_ about Cray Blitz.  Did you
>>>>see any of the micros coming close?  (hint:  round 2 was a forfeit which is why
>>>>they were paired a second time, round 2 never got started for the DT MCP game).
>>>
>>>Deep Thought was significantly better than the micro of 1995
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>I am well aware of that.  And DB was 100x faster than deep thought 2, and also
>>had a better evaluation...
>>
>>that was my point in all this...
>
>I don't think anyone disputes that in 1997 DB aws the best program around, but
>how well do you think it would do in 2005?  I mean, where do you think DB
>finishes in the WCCC2005?
>
>anthony

hard to predict, IMHO.  It would _not_ finish at the bottom.  But today's
programs have closed the gap in speed very significantly (16M nps for my WCCC
box, for example) which means that an overwhelming advantage has eroded to just
a fairly significant advantage.  They were the fastest/best at the WCCC in 1995,
after all what computer program had produced a 2650+ performance rating against
nothing but GM humans, in 40/2hr time controls besides them?  Yet they lost to
Fritz in a bit of terrible luck on when a comm line went down.

So at WCCC 2005, I would expect them to do well, but not anything like they did
thru 1994 where they simply won everything in sight every time...

And no, I would not expect Diep to beat them either.  :)

Nor my program.  But it would certainly be possible for anyone to beat them this
year, since their 1000x speed edge has dropped to 10x or less.  10x is
significant, but not completely overwhelming.

Of course, had they continued development, they would be running in terms of
billions of nodes per second since they could have taken advantage of 10 years
of hardware development just as well as we have.  And that would be overwhelming
in today's tournaments.

But it's all speculation, the only advantage I have over almost anyone here is
that I have actually sat across the table from them and played them, or sat
behind them and talked to Murray and Hsu as I watched their output.  Most of the
 'naysayers" have never even seen one of the authors or been in the same city
with the program playing in a match...



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