Author: Uri Blass
Date: 09:59:03 09/20/05
Go up one level in this thread
On September 20, 2005 at 11:58:35, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On September 20, 2005 at 02:35:50, Bruce Moreland wrote: > >>On September 18, 2005 at 14:47:26, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On September 18, 2005 at 14:38:27, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On September 18, 2005 at 13:59:18, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>On September 18, 2005 at 12:00:09, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On September 18, 2005 at 10:45:19, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>># Name 1 2 3 4 5 P BU SB G >>>>>>1 Deep Thought II 2w1 5b0 7w1 3b1 5b1 4 13½ 11 5 >>>>>>2 Zarkov 1b0 6b1 4w1 5b= 3w1 3½ 15 9¾ 5 >>>>>>3 Star Socrates 10w1 7b1 5w1 1w0 2b0 3 12½ 5 5 >>>>>>4 Now 6w= 10b= 2b0 8w1 9b1 3 10½ 5½ 5 >>>>>>5 Mchess Pro 8b1 1w1 3b0 2w= 1w0 2½ 16½ 7¾ 5 >>>>>>6 Cray Blitz 4b= 2w0 9w1 7b0 10w1 2½ 11 4 5 >>>>>>7 Wchess 9w1 3w0 1b0 6w1 8b0 2 13½ 4½ 5 >>>>>>8 Evaluator 5w0 9b0 10w1 4b0 7w1 2 10 2½ 5 >>>>>>9 Innovation II 7b0 8w1 6b0 10b1 4w0 2 10 2½ 5 >>>>>>10 Spector 3b0 4w= 8b0 9w0 6b0 ½ 12½ 1½ 5 >>>>>> >>>>>>Zarkov from those days had no problems beating your 3 million nps Cray Blitz. >>>>>>Nor had Wchess problems beating your 3 million nps Cray Blitz. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Ask John about the game. First, this was a 500K program for rounds 2-4. And >>>>>when you ask him, he'll tell you about our rather severe crash problem due to a >>>>>missing test to limit ply to 64 or less. And in a couple of cute places, we >>>>>went beyond that limit, crashed, and burned. We fixed it for the last round, >>>>>but it really didn't matter to the final results. >>>>> >>>>>But notice the issue was about deep thought, _not_ about Cray Blitz. Did you >>>>>see any of the micros coming close? (hint: round 2 was a forfeit which is why >>>>>they were paired a second time, round 2 never got started for the DT MCP game). >>>> >>>>Deep Thought was significantly better than the micro of 1995 >>>> >>>>Uri >>> >>>I am well aware of that. And DB was 100x faster than deep thought 2, and also >>>had a better evaluation... >>> >>>that was my point in all this... >> >>I think that Hsu is a pretty arrogant person, after having read some stuff that >>he has said about himself and other chess programmers. >> >>Read his book, if you can stand it. > >I did. It didn't particularly turn me off. But then I have had dozens of >face-to-face conversations with him dating back to 1987 in Orlando at the ACM >event that year, continuing thru the point where he left IBM a few years back. > >> >>For years you have taken a few things he has said as truth, but given his >>personality I am not sure if they are true. He may think they are, but this >>doesn't mean that they are. > >That is probably all in perception. I took very little of what he said at face >value, without supporting evidence. He was usually more than happy to sit down >with deep thought and play with positions to see how it would react. And he >never wanted to "hide" the display so I could not see. I didn't trust the SE >data, since they gave conflicting reports on the effect (was it +70 or +7 rating >points better) so I simply tried it for myself in Cray Blitz. And I think that >+7 was closer to the truth although in the right positions it was much more than >that... > > > > >> >>He hung you out to dry by leaving you as primary defender of Deep Blue for >>years, while he left the trivialities of computer chess to mere mortals like us. >> The DB project doesn't deserve defense. It hit computer chess like a >>carpetbagger, then left in the night when the money was gone. >> >>bruce > > >However, I would not attribute that to Hsu or Campbell. They were active in >computer chess for many years. IBM pulled the plug for obvious reasons after >they hit the peak of Mt. Everest... > >I'll always have a great deal of respect for the group. PVS search was first >used in my program by accident, as Murray and I played with it at an ACM event >on a machine we were not using, but a machine we had to use due to a power loss >during a key round. Singular Extensions was Hsu's idea, and it certainly >worked, since many are using it today in various forms. I know nobody who use it in the way that Hsu used it. Uri
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