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Subject: Re: Cray and supercomputers (kinda long)

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 19:49:20 09/20/05

Go up one level in this thread


On September 20, 2005 at 20:19:31, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>On September 20, 2005 at 16:38:51, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On September 20, 2005 at 15:34:42, Joshua Shriver wrote:
>>
>>>Thanks for the read, it was interesting.
>>>
>>>-Josh
>>
>>
>>And a bit misleading.  Vendors don't push one interconnect over another, just
>>because they "make more money".  They make more money on the more expensive
>>interconnects.  The old cLAN switch we have (8 ports) cost over $16,000 for the
>>switch alone, plus another $1K+ per PCI card to connect.  Dell had cLAN,
>>myrinet, gigabit, and 100mbit options.  Pay your money and take your chances.
>
>>Myrinet is the favorite today due only to the cost to the end-user, if they can
>>afford that over gigabit ethernet which is the least expensive option around,
>>and the worst latency.
>
>Actually this shows how knowledgeable you are on network cards and how business
>works. If people want a cluster, you sell of course with the cheapest components
>you got, if they are happy with it.

This shows how little you know about high-performance users.  We don't just say
"send me a supercomputer".  We know _before we order_ what kind of latency and
bandwidth we want.  We specify the interconnection hardware at the time we place
the order.  And Dell cheerfully builds it as we ask.  Or IBM cheerfully builds
it as we request.

Nobody in their right mind calls up a vendor and says "I have 10 million
dollars, build and ship me a supercomputer."  At least no _sane_ person.

On the purchasing end, we look at cost vs performance, and decide what we want,
what we can afford, and then work from there, with our budget, to decide what we
are going to order.  The vendor doesn't tell us what network fabric we have to
choose. They ask "what do you want?"

Don't know how it works over there, but that's how it works over here...

>
>Yes this is why myri is pushed, because 99% of all academics don't even know
>there is other networks faster than myri for hardly any extra price.


I'll bet I can name some academics that know so much more than you about data
transmission, you would not be able to talk to 'em.  But then everyone can see
that from your rambling posts...




>
>As the routing system for big clusters is same price. Actually ask some IBM
>salesman here. He'll tell you that he will sell a cluster regardless of which
>network the customer want, just default they use myri.


My point.  What the customer wants, not what the company wants to sell.  A
company would rather sell you a more expensive card, because their profit
percentage remains the same, and if the card is more expensive, they make more
money when they sell you the thing.  Why do you think an auto salesman would
rather sell you a Mercedes rather than a Yugo?




>
>Earnings *does* matter.

Yes, and when a company sells a gigabit network card for $100, or a cLAN card
for $1500, and they have a 15% (or whatever profit margin) they make _more_
dollars selling the more expensive card whenever possible.  Is that really that
hard to grasp?



>
>>Price is dictated by the end-user's pocketbook, not by what the vendor wants to
>>sell.  Don't believe anything else.



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