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Subject: Re: Does Fruit 2.2 not used EGTBs ? A Example (PGN)

Author: Eduard Nemeth

Date: 06:18:38 09/29/05

On September 29, 2005 at 08:44:56, Dieter Eberle wrote:

>Hi Eduard,
>a free update for tablebase usage will follow till end of October.
>[http://www.fruitchess.com/features.htm]
>Regards Dieter

Trotzdem:

Statt Kd3??? hätte im Zug 69. Kc4! wohl Remis gehalten, und Fruit 2.1 sowie Toga
II 1.0 sehen das auch:

[D]8/8/p7/P3kp2/7p/2K4P/6P1/8 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Fruit 2.1:

69.Kc4
  =  (0.18)   Tiefe: 1/1   00:00:00
69.Kc4 Ke4
  =  (0.18)   Tiefe: 2/3   00:00:00
69.Kc4 Ke4 70.Kc5
  =  (0.18)   Tiefe: 3/5   00:00:00
69.Kc4 Kf4 70.Kc5 Ke4
  =  (0.18)   Tiefe: 4/5   00:00:00
69.Kc4 Kf4 70.Kc5 Kg3 71.Kd4 Kxg2
  ³  (-0.63)   Tiefe: 5/8   00:00:00
69.Kc4 Kf4 70.Kc5 Kg3 71.Kb6 Kxg2
  µ  (-1.03)   Tiefe: 6/8   00:00:00
69.Kc4 Kf4 70.Kc5 Kg3 71.Kd4 Kxg2 72.Ke5 Kxh3 73.Kxf5
  µ  (-0.90)   Tiefe: 7/10   00:00:00  1kN
69.Kc4 Kf4 70.Kc5 Kg3 71.Kd4 Kxg2 72.Ke5 Kxh3 73.Kxf5
  µ  (-0.90)   Tiefe: 8/10   00:00:00  3kN
69.Kc4 Kf4 70.Kc5 Kg3 71.Kb6 Kxg2 72.Kxa6 f4 73.Kb5
  ²  (0.36)   Tiefe: 9/11   00:00:00  8kN
69.Kc4 Kf4 70.Kd4 Kg3 71.Ke5 Kxg2 72.Kxf5 Kxh3 73.Kf4 Kg2
  µ  (-1.19)   Tiefe: 10/11   00:00:00  10kN
69.Kd2 Kf4 70.Ke2 Kg3 71.Kf1 f4 72.Kg1 f3 73.gxf3 Kxh3
  ³  (-0.60)   Tiefe: 10/12   00:00:00  34kN
69.Kd2 Kf4 70.Ke2 Kg3 71.Kf1 f4 72.Kg1 f3 73.gxf3 Kxf3 74.Kf1 Ke4
  ³  (-0.60)   Tiefe: 11/13   00:00:00  73kN
69.Kd2 Kf4 70.Ke2 Kg3 71.Kf1 f4 72.Kg1 f3 73.gxf3 Kxf3 74.Kf1 Kg3 75.Ke2 Kxh3
  µ  (-1.08)   Tiefe: 12/14   00:00:00  75kN
69.Kd2 Kf4 70.Ke2 Kg3 71.Kf1 f4 72.Kg1 f3 73.gxf3 Kxf3 74.Kf1 Kg3 75.Ke2 Kxh3
  µ  (-1.08)   Tiefe: 13/16   00:00:00  80kN
69.Kd2 Kf4 70.Ke2 Kg3 71.Kf1 f4 72.Kg1 f3 73.gxf3 Kxf3 74.Kf1 Kg3 75.Ke2 Kxh3
76.Ke3
  µ  (-0.96)   Tiefe: 14/18   00:00:00  114kN
69.Kd2 Kf4 70.Ke2 Kg3 71.Kf1 f4 72.Kg1 f3 73.gxf3 Kxf3 74.Kf1 Kg3 75.Ke2 Kxh3
76.Kf3 Kh2
  µ  (-1.07)   Tiefe: 15/19   00:00:00  125kN
69.Kd2 Kf4 70.Ke2 Kg3 71.Kf1 f4 72.Kg1 f3 73.gxf3 Kxf3 74.Kf1 Kg3 75.Ke2 Kxh3
76.Kf3 Kh2 77.Ke4
  µ  (-0.89)   Tiefe: 16/24   00:00:01  308kN
69.Kd2 Kf4 70.Ke2 Kg3 71.Kf1 f4 72.Kg1 f3 73.gxf3 Kxf3 74.Kf1 Kg3 75.Ke2 Kxh3
76.Kf3 Kh2 77.Ke4 h3
  µ  (-1.26)   Tiefe: 17/26   00:00:01  339kN
69.Kc4 Kf4 70.Kc5 Kg3 71.Kb6 Kxg2 72.Kxa6 f4 73.Kb6 f3 74.a6 f2 75.a7 Kxh3
76.a8D f1D 77.Dc8+ Kg3 78.Dg8+ Kf3 79.Df7+ Kg2
  µ  (-1.18)   Tiefe: 17/29   00:00:01  363kN
69.Kc4 Kf4 70.Kc5 Kg3 71.Kb6 Kxg2 72.Kxa6 f4 73.Kb6 f3 74.a6 f2 75.a7 Kxh3
76.a8D f1D 77.Dc8+ Kg3 78.Dg8+ Kf3 79.Df8+ Kg2 80.Dg7+ Kh2 81.De5+ Kg2
  µ  (-1.05)   Tiefe: 18/29   00:00:01  478kN
69.Kc4 Kf4 70.Kc5 Kg3 71.Kb6 Kxg2 72.Kxa6 f4 73.Kb6 f3 74.a6 f2 75.a7 f1D
76.a8D+ Kxh3 77.Dc8+ Kg3 78.Dc3+ Df3 79.Dg7+ Kf2 80.Db2+ De2 81.Df6+ Kg3 82.Dg5+
Dg4 83.De5+ Df4
  µ  (-1.31)   Tiefe: 19/34   00:00:04  1097kN
69.Kc4 Kf4 70.Kc5 Kg3 71.Kb6 Kxg2 72.Kxa6 f4 73.Kb6 f3 74.a6 f2 75.a7 f1D
76.a8D+ Kxh3 77.Dc8+ Kh2 78.Dc7+ Kg1 79.Dg7+ Kh1 80.Db7+ Dg2 81.Df7 h3 82.Kc5
  µ  (-1.31)   Tiefe: 20/36   00:00:07  2311kN
69.Kc4 Kf4 70.Kc5 Kg3 71.Kb6 Kxg2 72.Kxa6 f4 73.Kb6 f3 74.a6 f2 75.a7 f1D
76.a8D+ Kxh3 77.Dd5 Df6+ 78.Kc5 Kg3 79.Dd3+ Kg4 80.De4+ Df4 81.De2+ Df3 82.Dc4+
Kg5 83.Dd4
  µ  (-1.36)   Tiefe: 21/38   00:00:14  4667kN
69.Kc4 Kf4 70.Kc5 Kg3 71.Kb6 Kxg2 72.Kxa6 f4 73.Kb6 f3 74.a6 f2 75.a7 f1D
76.a8D+ Kxh3 77.Dd5 Df6+ 78.Kc5 Kg3 79.Dd3+ Kg4 80.De4+ Df4 81.De2+ Kf5 82.Kd5
Kg5 83.De4 Dxe4+ 84.Kxe4
  µ  (-1.35)   Tiefe: 22/39   00:00:23  7681kN

(Nemeth, Privat 29.09.2005)

QTIPPS,F - Santiga,F, 20'/40 Privat
8/8/p7/P3kp2/7p/2K4P/6P1/8 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Toga II 1.0:

69.g3 hxg3
  -+  (-7.71)   Tiefe: 1/2   00:00:00
69.Kb2
  =  (-0.18)   Tiefe: 1/3   00:00:00
69.Kc2
  =  (-0.06)   Tiefe: 1/3   00:00:00
69.Kd2
  =  (0.06)   Tiefe: 1/3   00:00:00
69.Kd3
  =  (0.18)   Tiefe: 1/3   00:00:00
69.Kd3 Kd5
  =  (0.18)   Tiefe: 2/3   00:00:00
69.Kd3 Kd5 70.Ke3
  =  (0.18)   Tiefe: 3/5   00:00:00
69.Kd3 Kd5 70.Ke3 Ke5
  =  (0.18)   Tiefe: 4/5   00:00:00
69.Kd3 Kd5 70.Ke3 Ke5 71.Kd2
  =  (0.06)   Tiefe: 5/7   00:00:00
69.Kd3 Kf4 70.Ke2 Kg3 71.Kf1 Kf4
  =  (-0.18)   Tiefe: 6/8   00:00:00  2kN
69.Kd3 Kf4 70.Ke2 Kg3 71.Kf1 f4 72.Kg1
  =  (-0.06)   Tiefe: 7/9   00:00:00  3kN
69.Kd3 Kf4 70.Ke2 Kg3 71.Kf1 f4 72.Kg1 f3
  =  (-0.06)   Tiefe: 8/10   00:00:00  6kN
69.Kd3 Kf4 70.Ke2 Kg3 71.Kf1 f4 72.Kg1 f3 73.gxf3 Kxh3
  ³  (-0.60)   Tiefe: 9/11   00:00:00  10kN
69.Kc4 Kf4 70.Kc5 Kg3 71.Kb6 Kxg2 72.Kxa6 f4 73.Kb5
  ²  (0.36)   Tiefe: 9/12   00:00:00  14kN
69.Kc4 Kf4 70.Kd4 Kg3 71.Ke5 Kxg2 72.Kxf5 Kxh3 73.Kf4 Kg2
  µ  (-1.29)   Tiefe: 10/12   00:00:00  21kN
69.Kd3 Kf4 70.Ke2 Kg3 71.Kf1 f4 72.Kg1 f3 73.gxf3 Kxh3
  ³  (-0.60)   Tiefe: 10/14   00:00:00  26kN
69.Kd3 Kf4 70.Ke2 Kg3 71.Kf1 f4 72.Kg1 f3 73.gxf3 Kxf3 74.Kf1 Ke4
  ³  (-0.60)   Tiefe: 11/14   00:00:00  34kN
69.Kd3 Kf4 70.Ke2 Kg3 71.Kf1 f4 72.Kg1 f3 73.gxf3 Kxf3 74.Kh2 Kf2 75.Kh1
  ³  (-0.60)   Tiefe: 12/15   00:00:00  47kN
69.Kd3 Kf4 70.Ke2 Kg3 71.Kf1 f4 72.Kg1 f3 73.gxf3 Kxf3 74.Kh2 Kf2 75.Kh1 Ke3
  µ  (-0.84)   Tiefe: 13/18   00:00:00  65kN
69.Kd3 Kf4 70.Ke2 Kg3 71.Kf1 f4 72.Kg1 f3 73.gxf3 Kxf3 74.Kf1 Kg3 75.Ke2 Kxh3
76.Ke3
  µ  (-1.06)   Tiefe: 14/19   00:00:01  89kN
69.Kd3 Kf4 70.Ke2 Kg3 71.Kf1 f4 72.Kg1 f3 73.gxf3 Kxf3 74.Kf1 Kg3 75.Ke2 Kxh3
76.Kf3 Kh2
  µ  (-1.17)   Tiefe: 15/22   00:00:01  123kN
69.Kd3 Kf4 70.Ke2 Kg3 71.Kf1 f4 72.Kg1 f3 73.gxf3 Kxf3 74.Kf1 Kg3 75.Ke2 Kxh3
76.Kf3 Kh2 77.Ke4
  µ  (-0.99)   Tiefe: 16/24   00:00:01  186kN
69.Kd3 Kf4 70.Ke2 Kg3 71.Kf1 f4 72.Kg1 f3 73.gxf3 Kxf3 74.Kf1 Kg3 75.Ke2 Kxh3
76.Kf3 Kh2 77.Ke4 h3
  µ  (-1.36)   Tiefe: 17/28   00:00:02  276kN
69.Kc4 Kf4 70.Kc5 Kg3 71.Kb6 Kxg2 72.Kxa6 f4 73.Kb6 f3 74.a6 f2 75.a7 f1D
76.a8D+ Kxh3 77.Dc8+ Kg3 78.Dg8+ Kf3 79.Df8+ Kg2 80.Dg7+ Kh2 81.De5+ Kg2
  µ  (-1.19)   Tiefe: 17/30   00:00:02  325kN
69.Kc4 Kf4 70.Kc5 Kg3 71.Kb6 Kxg2 72.Kxa6 f4 73.Kb6 f3 74.a6 f2 75.a7 f1D
76.a8D+ Kxh3 77.Dc8+ Kh2 78.Dc7+ Kg1 79.Dg7+ Dg2 80.Da1+ Kf2 81.Df6+ Kg3 82.Dg5+
Kh3
  µ  (-1.16)   Tiefe: 18/32   00:00:03  466kN
69.Kc4 Kf4 70.Kc5 Kg3 71.Kb6 Kxg2 72.Kxa6 f4 73.Kb6 f3 74.a6 f2 75.a7 f1D
76.a8D+ Kxh3 77.De4 Df6+ 78.Kc5 Kg3 79.De3+ Kg4 80.De2+ Df3 81.De5
  -+  (-1.44)   Tiefe: 19/34   00:00:04  842kN
69.Kc4 Kf4 70.Kc5 Kg3 71.Kb6 Kxg2 72.Kxa6 f4 73.Kb6 f3 74.a6 f2 75.a7 f1D
76.a8D+ Kxh3 77.Dc8+ Kg3 78.Dc3+ Kg2 79.Dg7+ Kh1 80.Db7+ Dg2 81.Df7 h3 82.Kc5
  -+  (-1.45)   Tiefe: 20/36   00:00:06  1423kN
69.Kc4 Kf4 70.Kc5 Kg3 71.Kb6 Kxg2 72.Kxa6 f4 73.Kb6 f3 74.a6 f2 75.a7 f1D
76.a8D+ Kxh3 77.Dd5 Df6+ 78.Kc5 Kg3 79.Dd3+ Kg4 80.De4+ Df4 81.De2+ Kf5 82.Dh5+
Kf6 83.Dd5 De3+ 84.Kb4
  -+  (-1.45)   Tiefe: 21/38   00:00:11  2836kN
69.Kc4 Kf4 70.Kc5 Kg3 71.Kb6 Kxg2 72.Kxa6 f4 73.Kb6 f3 74.a6 f2 75.a7 f1D
76.a8D+ Kxh3 77.Dd5 Df6+ 78.Kc5 Kg3 79.Dd3+ Kg4 80.De4+ Df4 81.De2+ Kf5 82.Kd5
Kg5 83.De4 Dxe4+ 84.Kxe4
  -+  (-1.45)   Tiefe: 22/38   00:00:16  4256kN
69.Kc4 Kf4 70.Kc5 Kg3 71.Kb6 Kxg2 72.Kxa6 f4 73.Kb6 f3 74.a6 f2 75.a7 f1D
76.a8D+ Kxh3 77.De4 Kg3 78.Dg6+ Kh2 79.Dd6+ Kg1 80.Dg6+ Dg2 81.Db1+ Kh2 82.Dd3
h3 83.Kc5 Kg1
  -+  (-1.55)   Tiefe: 23/41   00:00:37  11214kN

(Nemeth, Privat 29.09.2005)

Nach Kc4 ergibt sich forciert:

69. Kc4 Kf4 70. Kc5 Kg3 71. Kb6 Kxg2 72. Kxa6 f4 73. Kb6 f3 74. a6 f2 75. a7
f1=Q 76. a8=Q+ Qf3 und vermutlich Remis.

[D]Q7/8/1K6/8/7p/5q1P/6k1/8 w - - 0 1

Wieso Fruit 2.2 dennoch den totalen Verlustzug spielt, und das nach 70s, ist mir
ein Rätsel!

Re: Does Fruit 2.2 not used EGTBs ? A Example (PGN) Uri Blass 09:34:08 09/29/05
- Re: Does Fruit 2.2 not used EGTBs ? A Example (PGN) Eduard Nemeth 11:30:18 09/29/05
  - Re: Does Fruit 2.2 not used EGTBs ? A Example (PGN) Christian Koch 13:27:58 09/29/05
    - Re: Does Fruit 2.2 not used EGTBs ? A Example (PGN) Greg Simpson 18:29:43 09/29/05
      - Re: Does Fruit 2.2 not used EGTBs ? A Example (PGN) Graham Banks 19:44:28 09/29/05
        
        Re: Does Fruit 2.2 not used EGTBs ? A Example (PGN) Greg Simpson 00:16:38 09/30/05
        
        Re: Does Fruit 2.2 not used EGTBs ? A Example (PGN) Heinz van Kempen 00:48:55 09/30/05
        
        Re: Does Fruit 2.2 not used EGTBs ? A Example (PGN) Uri Blass 01:14:09 09/30/05
Re: Does Fruit 2.2 not used EGTBs ? A Example (PGN) Bernhard Bauer 07:29:10 09/29/05
- Re: Does Fruit 2.2 not used EGTBs ? A Example (PGN) Uri Blass 07:41:11 09/29/05
  - Re: Does Fruit 2.2 not used EGTBs ? A Example (PGN) Bernhard Bauer 08:22:02 09/29/05
    - Re: Does Fruit 2.2 not used EGTBs ? A Example (PGN) Henrik Dinesen 09:35:08 09/29/05
- Re: A Example Eduard Nemeth 07:38:07 09/29/05
  - Re: A Example Djordje Vidanovic 09:05:11 09/29/05
    - Re: A Example Eduard Nemeth 11:39:00 09/29/05
      - Re: A Example Djordje Vidanovic 12:18:24 09/29/05
        
        Re: A Example Eduard Nemeth 12:56:35 09/29/05
        
        Re: A Example Djordje Vidanovic 13:40:21 09/29/05
    - Re: A Example Christian Koch 09:11:29 09/29/05
      - Re: A Example Günther Simon 09:18:15 09/29/05
        
        Re: A Example Djordje Vidanovic 09:55:00 09/29/05

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