Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: simple position not easy for most engines

Author: Will Singleton

Date: 13:04:51 10/03/05

Go up one level in this thread


On October 03, 2005 at 11:43:22, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On October 02, 2005 at 13:49:37, Will Singleton wrote:
>
>>White wins easily by promoting and exchanging queens, but most comps can't see
>>it.
>>
>>[d]8/5p1P/8/8/6K1/5P2/1k6/q7 w - -
>>
>>Amateur failed to exchange queens, and drew the game.  I'm not quite sure why,
>>seems like a simple search should be enough to handle this.  Oddly, if the
>>exchange is forced, the win is seen immediately.  This happens with other progs
>>as well.  I thought I had taken steps to eliminate root-position dependencies in
>>the search, but maybe something else is happening.
>>
>>Will
>
>
>Here is what you need:
>
>Your program probably understands that if you remove the black queen, white is
>winning because of the "outside passed pawn"???  (ignore the fact that the pawn
>promotes instantly for now).  If so, you need one more critical piece of
>knowledge.
>
>Your program needsd to realize that if things are not obvious, no pawn to
>promote, no distant passer on the board, but its king is closer to the remaining
>pawns than the enemy king, the game is _still_ won.
>
>Set up a position like white/black pawns locked up at a4/a5, white passer at h2,
>both kings near the center of the board.  The easiest way to win is to push the
>h-pawn.  Black has to go over and stop it, and once it is gone, white is too
>close to the remaining black a-pawn and the game is over.
>
>If you don't catch this case, you will play for a distant passer, but then
>refuse to give it up, and once your king gets to the distant passer to defend
>it, you can't force the promotion, and when you wait too long, as your king
>finally gives up the passer, black eats it and then follows you across the board
>and hems in your king on the a-file or else black gets to the a-file and the
>game is a draw.  But if you just push and get the black king too far away, you
>win easily...
>
>Crafty plays this move instantly with no endgame tables of any kind, and shows a
>big +score for white immediately, due to the above...
>
>

Thanks for the info, it will be helpful in other situations.  This one is
different.  After h8=Q a1=Q, we get this position:

[d]7Q/5p2/8/8/6K1/5P2/k7/q7 w - -

From here, Crafty takes 15 ply (over a minute on my comp) to see the exchange,
then another ply to get a winning score.  This is the problem I was referring
to, albeit clumsily.

Will



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.