Author: Henrik Dinesen
Date: 14:08:49 10/03/05
Go up one level in this thread
On October 03, 2005 at 11:52:22, Uri Blass wrote: >On October 03, 2005 at 11:04:15, Henrik Dinesen wrote: > >>On October 02, 2005 at 11:17:56, Keith Hyams wrote: >> >>>I haven't got the sources for these comments - they are just fragments of >>>memory. >>> The increase in Elo rating between S8 and S9 is small - not enough for me to >>>consider the upgrade. In one set of results that I saw it S9 was +2. Most >>>results tables put the increase as slightly greater and I have never seen S8 >>>come out higher than S9. >>> >>>One established correspondance player stated that he used Fritz 8 instead of >>>Shredder because the "analysis of Shredder is all over the place". I was >>>intrigued by this statement because I was not sure how an engine with analysis >>>all over the place got the right answer so often. However I think it is >>>universally accepted that Shredder analysis is optimistic. >>> >>>You may want to have a look at Fruit 2.1 if you are looking for consistency in >>>output. Fruit2.1 is freeware and Fruit2.2 is commercial. >>> >>> Keith >> >>Shredder 9 is more reliable than earlier versions in analysis, but I usually set >>selectivety to zero if I want more trustworthy PVs when using Shredder. >> >>Regards >>Henrik > >Based on experience shredder is not reliable for analysis and it is no problem >of selectivity > >[Event "10'/40+10'/40+10'/40"] >[Site "?"] >[Date "2005.10.03"] >[Round "?"] >[White "-"] >[Black "-"] >[Result "*"] >[PlyCount "31"] >[TimeControl "40/600:40/600:40/600"] > >1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 dxc4 5. a4 Bf5 6. Nh4 Bg4 7. h3 Bd7 8. e3 >b5 9. Nf3 e6 10. Ne5 a6 11. Qf3 Ra7 12. Qg3 Rc7 13. Be2 b4 14. Nb1 c5 15. Nd2 >c3 16. bxc3 * > > >Here is an example > >The evaluation before 15...c3 is positive for white >evaluation after 15...c3 is positive for black and it is not question of time. > >If you delete learning you will find that evaluation before 15...c3 can be >positive for black even after hours of search and if you delete learning you >will find that evaluation after 15...c3 is positive for black even after a short >time. > > >- - -, 10'/40+10'/40+10'/40 >[D]1n1qkb1r/2rb1ppp/p3pn2/2p1N3/PppP4/4P1QP/1P1NBPP1/R1B1K2R b KQk - 0 1 > >Analysis by Shredder 9 UCI: > >15...cxd4 > ³ (-0.50) Depth: 1/4 00:00:00 >15...cxd4 16.Bxc4 > ³ (-0.67) Depth: 1/6 00:00:00 >15...cxd4 16.Bxc4 > ³ (-0.67) Depth: 2/6 00:00:00 >15...cxd4 16.Bxc4 > ³ (-0.42) Depth: 3/8 00:00:00 >15...cxd4 16.Ndxc4 dxe3 > ³ (-0.39) Depth: 3/9 00:00:00 >15...cxd4 16.Ndxc4 > = (-0.05) Depth: 4/9 00:00:00 >15...cxd4 16.Ndxc4 dxe3 17.0-0 > = (-0.05) Depth: 4/9 00:00:00 >15...cxd4 16.Ndxc4 > ² (0.53) Depth: 5/9 00:00:00 >15...cxd4 16.Ndxc4 dxe3 17.Bxe3 > ² (0.53) Depth: 5/9 00:00:00 >15...cxd4 16.Ndxc4 > ² (0.28) Depth: 6/10 00:00:00 8kN >15...cxd4 16.Ndxc4 dxe3 17.Bxe3 Nc6 18.0-0 Nxe5 > = (0.17) Depth: 6/12 00:00:00 10kN >15...cxd4 16.Ndxc4 > ² (0.42) Depth: 7/13 00:00:00 14kN >15...cxd4 16.Ndxc4 Nc6 > ² (0.42) Depth: 7/15 00:00:00 22kN >15...cxd4 16.Ndxc4 Nc6 17.0-0 g6 18.Nxc6 Bxc6 19.exd4 Be7 20.Bf4 Rd7 > ² (0.53) Depth: 8/18 00:00:01 51kN >15...cxd4 16.Ndxc4 Nc6 17.0-0 g6 18.Nxc6 Bxc6 19.exd4 Be7 20.Bf4 Rd7 > ² (0.53) Depth: 9/18 00:00:02 93kN >15...cxd4 16.Ndxc4 Nc6 17.0-0 g6 18.Nxc6 Bxc6 19.exd4 Be7 20.Bf4 Ne4 21.Qe3 > ² (0.57) Depth: 10/23 00:00:03 225kN >15...c3 16.bxc3 bxc3 17.Nb3 cxd4 18.exd4 Nc6 19.0-0 Nxe5 20.dxe5 Ne4 21.Qf3 Nc5 >22.Nxc5 > ² (0.53) Depth: 10/23 00:00:03 368kN >15...c3 16.bxc3 bxc3 17.Nb3 cxd4 18.exd4 Nc6 19.0-0 Nxe5 20.dxe5 Ne4 21.Qf3 Nc5 >22.Nxc5 > ² (0.53) Depth: 10/23 00:00:03 369kN >15...c3 16.bxc3 bxc3 17.Nb3 cxd4 18.exd4 Nc6 19.0-0 Nxe5 20.dxe5 Ne4 21.Qf3 Nc5 >22.Nxc5 > ² (0.53) Depth: 11/23 00:00:04 390kN >15...c3 16.bxc3 bxc3 17.Nb3 cxd4 18.exd4 Nc6 19.0-0 Nxe5 20.dxe5 Ne4 21.Qf3 Nc5 >22.Nxc5 > ² (0.53) Depth: 12/23 00:00:05 616kN >15...c3 16.bxc3 bxc3 17.Nb3 cxd4 18.exd4 Nc6 19.0-0 Nxe5 20.dxe5 Ne4 21.Qf3 Nc5 >22.Nxc5 > ² (0.53) Depth: 13/23 00:00:06 1099kN >15...c3 16.bxc3 bxc3 17.Nb3 cxd4 18.exd4 Nc6 19.0-0 Nxe5 20.dxe5 Ne4 21.Qf3 Nc5 >22.Nxc5 Bxc5 > ² (0.53) Depth: 14/27 00:00:08 3468kN >15...c3 16.bxc3 bxc3 17.Ndf3 Bc6 18.0-0 Ne4 19.Qf4 Bd5 20.Rb1 > ² (0.61) Depth: 15/30 00:00:23 9636kN > >(, 03.10.2005) > >- - -, 10'/40+10'/40+10'/40 >1n1qkb1r/2rb1ppp/p3pn2/2p1N3/Pp1P4/2p1P1QP/1P1NBPP1/R1B1K2R w KQk - 0 1 > >Analysis by Shredder 9 UCI: > >16.Nxd7 > µ (-1.03) Depth: 1/4 00:00:00 >16.Nxd7 > -+ (-1.95) Depth: 1/5 00:00:00 >16.Nxd7 cxd2+ 17.Bxd2 Rxd7 > -+ (-3.21) Depth: 1/10 00:00:00 >16.0-0 > -+ (-2.87) Depth: 1/10 00:00:00 >16.0-0 > -+ (-1.93) Depth: 1/10 00:00:00 >16.0-0 > -+ (-1.93) Depth: 1/10 00:00:00 >16.bxc3 bxc3 17.Ndf3 Bc6 18.0-0 Ne4 19.Qf4 Bd5 20.Rb1 > ² (0.61) Depth: 1/10 00:00:00 >16.bxc3 bxc3 17.Ndf3 Bc6 18.0-0 Ne4 19.Qf4 Bd5 20.Rb1 > ² (0.61) Depth: 1/10 00:00:00 >16.bxc3 bxc3 17.Ndf3 Bc6 18.0-0 Ne4 19.Qf4 Bd5 20.Rb1 > ² (0.61) Depth: 2/10 00:00:00 >16.bxc3 bxc3 17.Ndf3 Bc6 18.0-0 Ne4 19.Qf4 Bd5 20.Rb1 > ² (0.61) Depth: 3/10 00:00:00 >16.bxc3 bxc3 17.Ndf3 Bc6 18.0-0 Ne4 19.Qf4 Bd5 20.Rb1 > ² (0.61) Depth: 4/10 00:00:00 >16.bxc3 bxc3 17.Ndf3 Bc6 18.0-0 Ne4 19.Qf4 Bd5 20.Rb1 > ² (0.61) Depth: 5/10 00:00:00 >16.bxc3 bxc3 17.Ndf3 Bc6 18.0-0 Ne4 19.Qf4 Bd5 20.Rb1 > ² (0.61) Depth: 6/10 00:00:00 4kN >16.bxc3 bxc3 17.Ndf3 Bc6 18.0-0 Ne4 19.Qf4 Bd5 20.Rb1 > ² (0.61) Depth: 7/10 00:00:00 12kN >16.bxc3 bxc3 17.Ndf3 Bc6 18.0-0 Ne4 19.Qf4 Bd5 20.Rb1 > ² (0.61) Depth: 8/10 00:00:00 26kN >16.bxc3 bxc3 17.Ndf3 Bc6 18.0-0 Ne4 19.Qf4 Bd5 20.Rb1 > ² (0.61) Depth: 9/10 00:00:00 26kN >16.bxc3 bxc3 17.Ndf3 Bc6 18.0-0 Ne4 19.Qf4 Bd5 20.Rb1 > ² (0.61) Depth: 10/10 00:00:01 37kN >16.bxc3 bxc3 17.Ndf3 Bc6 18.0-0 Ne4 19.Qf4 Bd5 20.Rb1 > ² (0.61) Depth: 11/11 00:00:01 99kN >16.bxc3 bxc3 17.Ndf3 Bc6 18.0-0 Ne4 19.Qf4 Bd5 20.Rb1 > ² (0.61) Depth: 12/12 00:00:03 210kN >16.bxc3 bxc3 17.Ndf3 Bc6 18.0-0 Ne4 19.Qf4 Bd5 20.Rb1 > ² (0.61) Depth: 13/13 00:00:04 424kN >16.bxc3 bxc3 17.Ndf3 Bc6 18.0-0 Ne4 19.Qf4 Bd5 20.Rb1 > ² (0.61) Depth: 14/14 00:00:06 664kN >16.bxc3 bxc3 > ² (0.36) Depth: 15/31 00:00:08 2166kN >16.bxc3 bxc3 > = (-0.14) Depth: 15/31 00:00:10 4098kN >16.bxc3 bxc3 17.Ndf3 Bc6 18.Nxc6 Nxc6 19.0-0 cxd4 20.Bxa6 Qd6 21.Qxd6 Bxd6 >22.exd4 h6 23.Re1 Nd5 > ³ (-0.41) Depth: 15/31 00:00:22 9426kN > >(, 03.10.2005) Didn't say reliable, just _more_ . And I agree. Good example. BTW, I don't know where to reset P-learning in CB-version, except deleting it. Referring to selectivity: Reducing it has shown less weird PV's of the kind with piece-losses. On the other hand, I haven't spent 100's of hours analysing with Shredder. Regards Henrik
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