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Subject: Re: Thank you all for your responses...

Author: Dann Corbit

Date: 16:56:11 10/11/05

Go up one level in this thread


On October 11, 2005 at 19:52:46, chandler yergin wrote:

>On October 11, 2005 at 19:43:59, Michael Yee wrote:
>
>>On October 11, 2005 at 17:46:02, chandler yergin wrote:
>>
>>>I apologize if I have offended anyone.
>>>A case of "Apples & Oranges" again..
>>>Misunderstandings..
>>>Stephen, and a few others here, know I seldom voice "Opinions";
>>>I Post facts..
>>>That way... if someone differs from the Post, they should attack the Fact,
>>>not the Poster.
>>>It doesn't always work that way...
>>>Everything I have Posted about Computer Chess Programs..I gave the Link
>>>Everything else I have Posted about Engines, Analysis Modules, is directly
>>>from the Chessbase Manual. It therefore refers to the Top Commercial
>>>Programs only.. Fritz, & Shredder
>>>Many of you that Program your own Engines 'tweak' them as you desire,
>>>and have a lot of fun.
>>>Players mostly use the Top Commercial Programs to assist in their play
>>>and improve their expertise.
>>>Thanks to a recent Post by Dan H. some of the confusion has been cleared up.
>>>Chessbase does use Mini/Max and so does indeed search every legal move
>>>for every position.
>>>So the "Apples & Oranges" now are just the difference between the Top
>>>Commercial Programs and the others.
>>>I find it very intersting that some of the 'lesser' Engines are really
>>>kicking Butt! Congrats to all! Keep it up...
>>>A Swift Kick only hurts for a little while..
>>>;)
>>>Chan
>>
>>
>>The posts from Dan don't say that chessbase uses minimax and searches every
>>legal move for every position.
>
>I know he didn't say it.. I said it!
>
> In fact, he said something almost the
>>opposite--that if a program worked that way, it would be crushed.
>
>Just plain wrong..sorry.
>>
>>You actually supplied evidence of the answer in one of your other posts (where
>>you provide a description of the analysis output). The analysis window reported:
>>
>>search depth = 12 (selective depth 40)
>>positions searched = 4.2 x 10^7
>
>I was using an example.. the type of info the Analysis Module window shows.
>
>>
>>If the analysis module really searched every position up to depth 12
>>(approximately 20 moves, 20 replies to each of those moves, 20 replies to each
>>of those replies, etc.), then it would have searched
>>
>>20^12 = 4.1 x 10^15 positions
>>
>>This is way more than what was reported in the analysis window. (And the 20 is a
>>very low estimate of average moves per position anyway.) Instead,
>>
>>4.32^12 = 4.22 x 10^7
>>
>>shows a branching factor that's more like 4--i.e., the program was not searching
>>every move in every position.
>>
>>Michael
>    Michael, Please read the Chessbase Manual!
>Do you have Chessbase? Do you have Fritz or Shredder?
>If so Start the engine look at the Analysis Window as I have requested.
>You will find what I said. EVERY Legal move in the position is evaluated.
>It's the way it works. Like it or not.

Every legal move from the root node.  That's usually about 20.



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