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Subject: Re: Thank you all for your responses...

Author: Dann Corbit

Date: 17:07:20 10/11/05

Go up one level in this thread


On October 11, 2005 at 20:02:19, chandler yergin wrote:

>On October 11, 2005 at 19:43:16, Dann Corbit wrote:
>
>>On October 11, 2005 at 17:46:02, chandler yergin wrote:
>>
>>>I apologize if I have offended anyone.
>>>A case of "Apples & Oranges" again..
>>>Misunderstandings..
>>>Stephen, and a few others here, know I seldom voice "Opinions";
>>>I Post facts..
>>>That way... if someone differs from the Post, they should attack the Fact,
>>>not the Poster.
>>>It doesn't always work that way...
>>>Everything I have Posted about Computer Chess Programs..I gave the Link
>>>Everything else I have Posted about Engines, Analysis Modules, is directly
>>>from the Chessbase Manual. It therefore refers to the Top Commercial
>>>Programs only.. Fritz, & Shredder
>>>Many of you that Program your own Engines 'tweak' them as you desire,
>>>and have a lot of fun.
>>>Players mostly use the Top Commercial Programs to assist in their play
>>>and improve their expertise.
>>>Thanks to a recent Post by Dan H. some of the confusion has been cleared up.
>>>Chessbase does use Mini/Max and so does indeed search every legal move
>>>for every position.
>>
>>There is absolutely, postively no way on God's green earth that ChessBase is
>>using mini/max to search anything.
>
>Why do you say that? Fritz gets to over 15 ply almost instantly.

Then either they are computing with Tachyons or they are not using mini/max.

>>We would see a branching factor of around 20 and a 15 ply search would take
>>years to finish.
>
>Please let's settle this. Give me a FEN for any Position
>OK?

[D]rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq -

Here are the correct node counts by ply:
Depth Perft value Database Verified?
1 20   Verified OK!
2 400   Verified OK!
3 8902   Verified OK!
4 197281   Verified OK!
5 4865609   Verified OK!
6 119060324   Verified OK!
7 3195901860   Verified OK!
8 84998978956   Verified OK!
9 2439530234167 download (Access) Verified OK!
10 69352859712417 download (Access) Verified OK!
11 2097651003696806 download (Access) Not verified

>I will clip the analysis copy the game present Diagrams..You are denying
>what Chessbase is all about.

What is it that they are all about then?

>>I suppose you could consider alpha/beta as a variant of mini/max (but that's
>>like calling Andy Green's "Thrust SSC" a fast bicycle.)
>>
>>Any engine that uses pure mini/max is going to be unfathomably lame.
>>Even engines using pure alpha/beta will get the stuffings stomped out of them by
>>pruning engines.
>>
>>The ChessBase engines do not use mini/max or even pure alpha/beta.  Where ever
>>you got your information from was wrong.  Even if it was from the ChessBase web
>>site it is wrong.
>
>No  It's from Chessbase 7.0 Manual.

I have chessbase.  I doubt if the writers were drunk at the time.  Can you give
me the page number?

> If Amir Ban, Frans Morsch, Mark Uniacke, Christophe Theron,
>>and SMK all came to you personally, promised that they use nothing but mini/max
>>on a written document and signed it with their own blood -- it's still wrong.
>>
>>>So the "Apples & Oranges" now are just the difference between the Top
>>>Commercial Programs and the others.
>>>I find it very intersting that some of the 'lesser' Engines are really
>>>kicking Butt! Congrats to all! Keep it up...
>>>A Swift Kick only hurts for a little while..
>>>;)
>>>Chan
>   Do us all a favor Dann.
>Please ask/write/phone/E-mail, whatever method you prefer.
>Ask Chessbase about this.
>Would you do that for us?

Will I ask a science teacher if air is more dense than osmium?
There is nothing I can imagine that would be a greater waste of time.

>Thank You,
>Chan



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