Author: Dann Corbit
Date: 17:07:20 10/11/05
Go up one level in this thread
On October 11, 2005 at 20:02:19, chandler yergin wrote: >On October 11, 2005 at 19:43:16, Dann Corbit wrote: > >>On October 11, 2005 at 17:46:02, chandler yergin wrote: >> >>>I apologize if I have offended anyone. >>>A case of "Apples & Oranges" again.. >>>Misunderstandings.. >>>Stephen, and a few others here, know I seldom voice "Opinions"; >>>I Post facts.. >>>That way... if someone differs from the Post, they should attack the Fact, >>>not the Poster. >>>It doesn't always work that way... >>>Everything I have Posted about Computer Chess Programs..I gave the Link >>>Everything else I have Posted about Engines, Analysis Modules, is directly >>>from the Chessbase Manual. It therefore refers to the Top Commercial >>>Programs only.. Fritz, & Shredder >>>Many of you that Program your own Engines 'tweak' them as you desire, >>>and have a lot of fun. >>>Players mostly use the Top Commercial Programs to assist in their play >>>and improve their expertise. >>>Thanks to a recent Post by Dan H. some of the confusion has been cleared up. >>>Chessbase does use Mini/Max and so does indeed search every legal move >>>for every position. >> >>There is absolutely, postively no way on God's green earth that ChessBase is >>using mini/max to search anything. > >Why do you say that? Fritz gets to over 15 ply almost instantly. Then either they are computing with Tachyons or they are not using mini/max. >>We would see a branching factor of around 20 and a 15 ply search would take >>years to finish. > >Please let's settle this. Give me a FEN for any Position >OK? [D]rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - Here are the correct node counts by ply: Depth Perft value Database Verified? 1 20 Verified OK! 2 400 Verified OK! 3 8902 Verified OK! 4 197281 Verified OK! 5 4865609 Verified OK! 6 119060324 Verified OK! 7 3195901860 Verified OK! 8 84998978956 Verified OK! 9 2439530234167 download (Access) Verified OK! 10 69352859712417 download (Access) Verified OK! 11 2097651003696806 download (Access) Not verified >I will clip the analysis copy the game present Diagrams..You are denying >what Chessbase is all about. What is it that they are all about then? >>I suppose you could consider alpha/beta as a variant of mini/max (but that's >>like calling Andy Green's "Thrust SSC" a fast bicycle.) >> >>Any engine that uses pure mini/max is going to be unfathomably lame. >>Even engines using pure alpha/beta will get the stuffings stomped out of them by >>pruning engines. >> >>The ChessBase engines do not use mini/max or even pure alpha/beta. Where ever >>you got your information from was wrong. Even if it was from the ChessBase web >>site it is wrong. > >No It's from Chessbase 7.0 Manual. I have chessbase. I doubt if the writers were drunk at the time. Can you give me the page number? > If Amir Ban, Frans Morsch, Mark Uniacke, Christophe Theron, >>and SMK all came to you personally, promised that they use nothing but mini/max >>on a written document and signed it with their own blood -- it's still wrong. >> >>>So the "Apples & Oranges" now are just the difference between the Top >>>Commercial Programs and the others. >>>I find it very intersting that some of the 'lesser' Engines are really >>>kicking Butt! Congrats to all! Keep it up... >>>A Swift Kick only hurts for a little while.. >>>;) >>>Chan > Do us all a favor Dann. >Please ask/write/phone/E-mail, whatever method you prefer. >Ask Chessbase about this. >Would you do that for us? Will I ask a science teacher if air is more dense than osmium? There is nothing I can imagine that would be a greater waste of time. >Thank You, >Chan
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