Author: Uri Blass
Date: 03:35:26 10/13/05
Go up one level in this thread
On October 13, 2005 at 06:26:05, Uri Blass wrote: >On October 13, 2005 at 03:02:45, Ryan B. wrote: > >>I think it is a known issue that Toga, just like Fruit that it is based on, >>knows very little about stratrgy and plays off being a great searcher. > > >No > >I think that evaluation is one of the big advantage of fruit relative to >opponents and not search. > >I have examples when Fruit simply evaluate position better than commercial >programs. > > > Becuase >>it is an open source program you could add to the eval but it will slow down the >>search some for each thing added. In computer chess it is still tactics over >>strategy, never mind the so called "positional" chess programs. > >I disagree. >I think that there are lot of positions that fruit understand better than >commercial programs(see the case of the exchange sacrifice that I mentioned) > >Fruit is also not a fast solver of nolot 1 or nolot 2 so I do not think it's >relative advantage to the commercial programs is tactics. > >Uri I can add that Shredder also likes 9.c5 at fast time control and the same for other moves that are mentioned like 13.Bd3 and I remember that it also liked initially 34.Bh4 without learning(of course after positional learning take effect shredder may not like 34.Bh4 but I still can reproduce it after some analysis so this game show no positional superiority of Shredder) chessmaster - WinboardEngine, jogo.cex.org rated BLITZ 2005 rn3rk1/ppq2ppp/2pbpn2/3p4/2PP2b1/1PN1PN2/P3BPPP/R1BQ1RK1 w - - 0 1 Analysis by Shredder 9 UCI: 9.cxd5 µ (-0.77) Depth: 1/5 00:00:00 9.cxd5 -+ (-2.06) Depth: 1/5 00:00:00 9.cxd5 -+ (-1.92) Depth: 1/5 00:00:00 9.Ne5 µ (-1.16) Depth: 1/6 00:00:00 9.Ne5 µ (-1.16) Depth: 1/8 00:00:00 9.h3 µ (-0.93) Depth: 1/9 00:00:00 9.h3 µ (-0.84) Depth: 1/9 00:00:00 9.h3 Bb4 µ (-0.74) Depth: 2/9 00:00:00 9.h3 Bb4 -+ (-1.42) Depth: 3/9 00:00:00 9.h3 Bxf3 10.Bxf3 Bh2+ 11.Kh1 -+ (-1.46) Depth: 3/9 00:00:00 9.Ne5 -+ (-1.45) Depth: 3/9 00:00:00 9.Ne5 Bxe2 10.Nxe2 Bxe5 -+ (-1.43) Depth: 3/9 00:00:00 9.c5 -+ (-1.42) Depth: 3/9 00:00:00 9.c5 µ (-1.07) Depth: 3/9 00:00:00 9.c5 Be7 10.Ne5 ³ (-0.45) Depth: 3/9 00:00:00 9.c5 Be7 10.Ne5 Bxe2 11.Qxe2 ³ (-0.31) Depth: 4/9 00:00:00 9.c5 Be7 ³ (-0.57) Depth: 5/11 00:00:00 9.c5 Be7 10.Bb2 ³ (-0.57) Depth: 5/11 00:00:00 9.c5 Be7 10.Ba3 Nbd7 11.Bd3 Rad8 12.Qe2 ³ (-0.63) Depth: 6/16 00:00:00 18kN 9.c5 Be7 10.Bb2 Nbd7 11.Qc2 Bf5 12.Bd3 Bxd3 ³ (-0.42) Depth: 7/16 00:00:00 46kN 9.c5 Be7 10.Bb2 Nbd7 11.Qc2 Bf5 12.Bd3 Bxd3 13.Qxd3 Ng4 ³ (-0.46) Depth: 8/16 00:00:01 76kN 9.c5 Be7 10.Bb2 Nbd7 11.Qc2 Bf5 12.Bd3 Bxd3 13.Qxd3 Ng4 14.Ne2 ³ (-0.55) Depth: 9/18 00:00:02 129kN 9.c5 Be7 10.Bb2 Nbd7 11.Qc2 Rae8 12.Rad1 e5 13.dxe5 Bxf3 14.Bxf3 ³ (-0.47) Depth: 10/22 00:00:03 231kN 9.c5 Be7 10.Bb2 Nbd7 11.Qc2 Rae8 12.h3 Bf5 13.Bd3 Bxd3 14.Qxd3 b6 15.cxb6 ³ (-0.43) Depth: 11/22 00:00:04 428kN 9.c5 Be7 10.Bb2 Nbd7 11.Qc2 Rae8 12.h3 Bf5 13.Bd3 Bxd3 14.Qxd3 b6 15.cxb6 axb6 16.Rac1 ³ (-0.43) Depth: 12/26 00:00:05 826kN 9.c5 Be7 10.Bb2 Nbd7 11.Qc2 Bf5 12.Bd3 Bxd3 13.Qxd3 e5 14.Qf5 e4 15.Ng5 g6 16.Qh3 ³ (-0.52) Depth: 13/27 00:00:06 1612kN 9.h3 ³ (-0.51) Depth: 13/27 00:00:06 2575kN (, 13.10.2005) chessmaster - WinboardEngine, jogo.cex.org rated BLITZ 2005 5q2/4b2p/2p1kn2/1pPp1p2/1P1PpP2/2N1P2P/7K/2Q1B3 w - - 0 1 Analysis by Shredder 9 UCI: 35.Bh4 Qh6 36.Bxf6 µ (-0.78) Depth: 1/1 00:00:00 35.Bh4 Qh6 36.Bxf6 µ (-0.78) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 35.Bf2 ³ (-0.58) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 35.Bf2 ³ (-0.58) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 35.Bf2 µ (-0.84) Depth: 2/3 00:00:00 35.Bf2 Qg7 µ (-0.96) Depth: 2/4 00:00:00 35.Bh4 Qh6 36.Bxf6 µ (-0.78) Depth: 2/4 00:00:00 35.Bh4 Qh6 36.Bxf6 µ (-0.78) Depth: 2/4 00:00:00 35.Qa1 Kf7 ³ (-0.60) Depth: 2/4 00:00:00 35.Qa1 Kf7 ³ (-0.60) Depth: 2/4 00:00:00 35.Qa1 Kf7 ³ (-0.60) Depth: 3/4 00:00:00 35.Qa1 Kf7 ³ (-0.60) Depth: 4/4 00:00:00 35.Qa1 Kf7 ³ (-0.60) Depth: 5/5 00:00:00 35.Qa1 Kf7 ³ (-0.60) Depth: 6/6 00:00:00 35.Qa1 Kf7 ³ (-0.60) Depth: 7/7 00:00:00 35.Qa1 Kf7 ³ (-0.60) Depth: 8/8 00:00:00 35.Qa1 Kf7 ³ (-0.60) Depth: 9/9 00:00:00 35.Qa1 Kf7 ³ (-0.60) Depth: 10/10 00:00:00 35.Qa1 Kf7 ³ (-0.60) Depth: 11/11 00:00:00 1kN 35.Qa1 Kf7 ³ (-0.60) Depth: 12/12 00:00:01 2kN 35.Qa1 Kf7 ³ (-0.60) Depth: 13/13 00:00:02 3kN 35.Qa1 Kf7 ³ (-0.60) Depth: 14/14 00:00:03 4kN 35.Qa1 Kf7 ³ (-0.60) Depth: 15/15 00:00:04 5kN 35.Qa1 Kf7 µ (-1.09) Depth: 16/42 00:00:05 1264kN 35.Qa1 Qh6 36.Kg2 Qh5 37.Qd1 Qg6+ 38.Kh2 µ (-1.09) Depth: 16/42 00:00:05 1638kN 35.Bh4 µ (-1.08) Depth: 16/42 00:00:05 2250kN 35.Bh4 Ng4+ 36.hxg4 Qh6 37.gxf5+ Kxf5 38.Qf1 Qxh4+ 39.Qh3+ Qxh3+ 40.Kxh3 h5 41.Ne2 Bf6 42.Ng3+ Kg6 43.Ne2 h4 µ (-0.76) Depth: 16/43 00:00:07 4146kN 35.Bh4 Qh6 36.Bg5 Qh5 37.Bxf6 µ (-0.77) Depth: 17/45 00:00:13 7818kN 35.Bh4 Ng4+ 36.hxg4 Qh6 37.gxf5+ Kxf5 38.Qf1 Qxh4+ 39.Qh3+ Qxh3+ 40.Kxh3 h5 41.Ne2 Bf6 42.Ng3+ Kg6 43.Ne2 Bxd4 µ (-0.79) Depth: 18/49 00:00:31 19318kN (, 13.10.2005)
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