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Subject: Re: Proof

Author: Graham Banks

Date: 03:23:28 10/18/05

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On October 18, 2005 at 06:10:05, George Tsavdaris wrote:

>On October 18, 2005 at 05:59:08, Graham Banks wrote:
>>>>No opening books
>>>>Standings after Round 32
>>>>
>>>>20.5 - D1 Meandros
>>>>20.0 - WoDra
>...........
>...........
>>>>12.5 - Solomon
>>>>12.0 - Default
>>>>12.0 - Cobra
>>>>11.0 - Vegeta 2d
>>>
>>>No proof.
>>>
>>>number of games is not enough.
>>>
>>>The same program can score 12/32 in one tournament and 20/32 in another
>>>tournament even without changing the time control.
>>>
>>Not under these conditions if you look - "no books"
>
> Yes, but how do you know that the results will be the same when opening books
>will be set to ON? Perhaps CMDefault would be stronger from D1 Meandros for
>example, when it plays with book ON.......
> So you should provide a tournament with book ON and with a much higher number
>of games, to be able to tell this a "proof".
> But even then it would be no proof since you will have to include and non-CM
>engines. And the number of these engines should be big. For example 10-20 non-CM
>engines have to participate......
>
>>
>>
>>>It is also no proof when you test only against chessmaster personalities because
>>>it is possible that the default personality is worse at longer time control
>>>against other CM personalities but it is not the case when you test against
>>>other opponents like Fruit,Fritz,Ktulu.
>>
>>A good point Uri, but in my experience in testing both CM9000 and CM10th
>>Edition, the majority of these settings also outperform the default settings at
>>longer time controls.
>>Ray can provide proof of this with both default and all settings he's tested
>>having played 320 games against other programs.
>>Not too much point arguing CM10th testing with us as we've been doing it a long
>>time under many different scenarios.
>
>We will be close to call something a "proof" only when:
>There is a tournament that each engine will play at least 300 or more games, it
>will play with book=ON (because that is the way engines will play decent Chess
>and not doubtful openings) and it will have at least 15-20 top, semi-top engines
>different from Chessmaster.


Just for you George!

40 games per setting against each of Shredder 9, Fruit 2.1, Aristarch 4.50,
Fritz 8 Bilbao, Gandalf 6.0, Ruffian 2.1.0, Junior 9 and Hiarcs 9
That's 320 games per setting.

Time control 40 moves in 40 minutes on dual Athlons, ponder on, own books, 3-4-5
men EGTB

159.0 - Cell
155.0 - Behemoth
154.5 - Milan 2.3
153.0 - Berean 5.53
150.0 - Schumacher
148.0 - Emperor
147.5 - Undertaker 3
147.5 - D1 Meandros
145.5 - Yoda 2.7
145.0 - Myrddin
143.0 - Beast
139.5 - Cobra
134.0 - Default

Any other questions?

Regards, Graham.



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