Author: chandler yergin
Date: 08:36:38 10/21/05
Go up one level in this thread
On October 20, 2005 at 04:50:04, Rick Hagen wrote:
>On October 20, 2005 at 03:53:09, Eduard Nemeth wrote:
>
>>On October 19, 2005 at 10:18:57, chandler yergin wrote:
>>
>>>On October 19, 2005 at 09:50:20, Eduard Nemeth wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 19, 2005 at 09:41:07, chandler yergin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Thank you.
>>>>
>>>>Hi,
>>>>
>>>>for my analyses I need a strong Engines, and not games as example.
>>>>
>>>>The fact now is that Fritz 9.0.0.0 ist for endgame-analyses very bad!
>>>>
>>>>Oen your eyes!!
>>
>>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?456780
>>
>>Open your eyes!
>
>Just ignore him, Eduard.
>I don't think he's even trolling, I'm afraid it's something more serious...
There are no Bugs in any Engine!
The Engine does nothing.
The Algorithm does everything!
http://www.seanet.com/~brucemo/topics/minmax.htm
"Let's say that at the root position (the position on the board now), it's
White's turn to move. The Max function is called, and all of White's legal
moves are generated. In each resulting position, the "Min" function is called.
The "Min" function scores the position and returns a value. Since it is White
to move, and White wants a more positive score if possible, the move with the
largest score is selected as best, and the value of this move is returned.
The "Min" function works in reverse. The "Min" function is called when it's
Black's turn to move, and black wants a more negative score, so the move with
the most negative score is selected.
These functions are dual recursive, meaning that they call each other until the
desired search depth is reached. When the functions "bottom out", they return
the result of the "Evaluate" function.
If you call "MinMax" with a depth value of 1, essentially all that happens is
that the "Evaluate" function is called after each legal move, and the position
that results in the "best" value for the side to move is selected. If depth is
greater than one, the other side gets a chance to respond, and chose its best
move.
The above shouldn't be hard to understand,"
To say there is a Bug in the Engine is just not correct!
To say that the Algorithm is biased.. does not work for some positions
is not correct.
If it did, it would not work for any position, and would be disfunctional.
>
>[Event ", 40'/40+40'/40+40'40 n1 yt1 F9"]
>[Site "?"]
>[Date "2005.10.15"]
>[Round "2"]
>[White "Fritz 9"]
>[Black "The King 3.33"]
>[Result "0-1"]
>[ECO "B33"]
>[Annotator "0.04;-0.25"]
>[PlyCount "128"]
>[EventDate "2005.??.??"]
>
>{W=14.2 ply; 1.361kN/s; 21.339 TBAs B=11.7 ply; 392kN/s} 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3.
>d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nc6 5. Nb5 Nf6 6. N1c3 d6 7. Bf4 e5 8. Bg5 a6 9. Na3 b5 10.
>Bxf6 gxf6 11. Nd5 f5 12. c3 Bg7 13. exf5 Bxf5 {Beide letzter Buchzug} 14. Qf3 {
>0.04/14 162} Be6 {-0.25/12 93} 15. Nf4 {(Ld3) 0.06/14 87} d5 {-0.12/12 100} 16.
>Nxe6 {-0.03/15 148} fxe6 {-0.11/11 28} 17. Qh5+ {-0.03/14 70} Kd7 {
>(Kf8) -0.19/12 41} 18. Nc2 {(Le2) 0.23/13 59} Qe8 {(Tf8) -0.32/12 91} 19. Qe2 {
>(Dxe8+) 0.07/14 97} e4 {(Df8) -0.49/11 90} 20. a4 {(0-0-0) 0.14/13 96} Qg6 {
>-0.86/11 92} 21. h4 {(axb5) -0.07/13 98} Rhf8 {(Se5) -0.87/10 71} 22. axb5 {
>-0.03/13 92} axb5 {-0.82/11 61} 23. Rxa8 {-0.48/14 98} Rxa8 {-0.95/11 32} 24.
>Qd1 {(De3) -0.54/14 80} Ra2 {(b4) -1.07/11 78} 25. Qb1 {-0.66/15 140} e3 {
>-0.98/12 90} 26. Kd1 {-0.83/14 56} Ra4 {(Ta7) -0.96/11 92} 27. fxe3 {
>-0.11/13 61} b4 {-0.79/11 97} 28. h5 {(Kd2) -0.69/13 154} Qe4 {-0.91/12 84} 29.
>Bb5 {(h6) -0.48/13 75} bxc3 {-1.11/11 59} 30. bxc3 {-0.59/14 65} Qxg2 {
>(Lxc3) -0.85/11 53} 31. Rf1 {-0.32/14 82} Bxc3 {-0.89/11 87} 32. Be2 {
>-0.41/14 65} d4 {-0.82/11 92} 33. Qb5 {-0.85/13 66} Ra5 {-0.96/11 86} 34. Qb7+
>{-1.09/14 68} Kd6 {-1.41/12 61} 35. Rf7 {-1.02/14 66} Qh1+ {-1.43/11 91} 36.
>Rf1 {-1.52/14 120} Qe4 {-1.54/11 76} 37. Rf7 {(exd4) -1.11/14 144} dxe3 {
>(Ta7) -1.59/10 60} 38. Qd7+ {-1.51/15 41} Kc5 {-1.49/12 94} 39. Qd3 {
>-1.45/16 91} Qh1+ {-1.49/11 89} 40. Rf1 {-1.52/14 7} Qd5 {-1.42/12 51} 41.
>Qxd5+ {-1.50/16 115} exd5 {-1.55/12 52} 42. Nxe3 {(Tf7) -1.54/15 63} Ra1+ {
>-1.64/11 72} 43. Kc2 {-1.50/11 1} Ra3 {-1.54/12 88} 44. Kd1 {-1.58/15 84} Ba5 {
>-1.58/12 129} 45. Nc2 {-1.62/16 112} Rb3 {-1.59/12 81} 46. Ba6 {
>(Kc1) -1.61/15 155} h6 {(Th3) -1.80/11 51} 47. Rf8 {(Kc1) -1.41/15 151} Rb1+ {
>(Th3) -2.21/11 79} 48. Ke2 {-1.32/11 2} Rh1 {-2.30/12 95} 49. Ne3 {
>(Lb7) -0.99/12 39} Rh2+ {-2.30/10 46} 50. Kf1 {-0.91/14 54} Rxh5 {
>(Tb2) -2.20/11 76} 51. Nxd5 {(Lb7) -0.30/13 72} Rxd5 {-4.26/12 75} 52. Bb7 {
>-0.36/12 57} Bd8 {(Ld2) -4.26/11 47} 53. Rf3 {-0.32/12 42} Kd6 {
>(Lg5) -4.37/12 73} 54. Rc3 {(Ta3) -0.31/12 39} Rf5+ {-4.42/11 49} 55. Kg2 {
>(Ke2) -0.36/14 217} Nd4 {(Tg5+) -4.45/11 43} 56. Rc4 {(Le4) -0.35/12 59} Rg5+ {
>-4.51/11 72} 57. Kf1 {(Kh3) -0.66/13 61} Bf6 {(Ke5) -4.55/11 67} 58. Ra4 {
>-0.51/12 68} Rb5 {(Sb3) -4.63/11 67} 59. Ra6+ {(La6) -0.41/12 43} Ke5 {
>(Sc6) -4.67/12 39} 60. Ba8 {(Lc6) -2.25/13 110} h5 {(Tb8) -4.73/10 52} 61. Ra4
>{(Kg1) -2.25/12 34} h4 {(Tb8) -4.79/10 57} 62. Ra3 {-4.17/13 63} Rb2 {
>(Kf4) -4.86/10 46} 63. Ra5+ {(Lg2) -4.95/13 41} Kf4 {-5.33/11 45} 64. Ra3 {
>(Ta6) -5.59/13 56} Nf5 {(Le7) -6.14/10 46} 0-1
>
>Here's the position at move 51:
>[D]5R2/8/B1n4p/b1kp3r/8/4N3/8/5K2 w - - 0 51
>
>Here's F9's analysis:
>
>Fritz 9 - The King 3.33, , 40'/40+40'/40+40'40 n1 yt1 F9 2005
>5R2/8/B1n4p/b1kp3r/8/4N3/8/5K2 w - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Fritz 9:
>
>51.Nxd5 Rxd5 52.Bb7 Bd2 53.Rf7 Rg5 54.Rc7 Be3 55.Ke2 Re5 56.Rc8 Kb6
> ³ (-0.34) Depth: 7/12 00:00:00
>51.Nxd5 Rxd5 52.Bb7 Bd2 53.Rf7 Rg5 54.Rc7 Be3 55.Ke2 Re5 56.Rc8 Kb6
> ³ (-0.34) Depth: 8/12 00:00:00
>51.Nxd5 Rxd5 52.Bb7 Bd2 53.Rf7 Rg5 54.Rc7 Be3 55.Ke2 Re5 56.Rc8 Kb6
> ³ (-0.34) Depth: 9/12 00:00:00
>51.Nxd5 Rxd5 52.Bb7 Bd2 53.Rf7 Rg5 54.Rc7 Be3 55.Ke2 Re5 56.Rc8 Kb6
> ³ (-0.34) Depth: 10/12 00:00:00
>51.Nxd5 Rxd5 52.Bb7 Bd2 53.Rf7 Rg5 54.Rc7 Be3 55.Ke2 Re5 56.Rc8 Kb6
> ³ (-0.34) Depth: 11/12 00:00:00
>51.Nxd5 Rxd5 52.Bb7 Bd2 53.Rf7 Rg5 54.Rc7 Be3 55.Ke2 Re5 56.Rc8 Kb6
> ³ (-0.34) Depth: 12/12 00:00:00
>51.Nxd5 Rxd5 52.Bb7 Bd2 53.Rf7 Rg5 54.Rc7 Be3 55.Ke2 Re5 56.Rc8 Kb6
> ³ (-0.34) Depth: 13/13 00:00:00
>51.Nxd5 Rxd5 52.Bb7 Bd2 53.Rf7 Rg5 54.Rc7 Be3 55.Ke2 Re5 56.Rc8 Kb6
> ³ (-0.34) Depth: 14/14 00:00:04 4425kN
>51.Nxd5 Rxd5 52.Bb7 Rd1+ 53.Kg2 Rd2+ 54.Kh3 Bc7 55.Rf1 h5 56.Kh4 Rh2+ 57.Kg5
>Bf4+ 58.Kf6 h4 59.Kf5 h3 60.Kg4
> ³ (-0.35) Depth: 15/44 00:01:38 118479kN
>
>I'm sure there will be a new version soon(?) 9.0.0.x
>
>How many Fritz 8 versions were there... lost count myself.
>Too bad the Bilbao version was not a free update, hope the next bug-free(?)
>Fritz 9 version will be free however...
>
>Rick
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