Author: Uri Blass
Date: 05:33:55 10/24/05
Go up one level in this thread
On October 24, 2005 at 07:36:52, Ryan B. wrote:
>On October 24, 2005 at 06:37:19, Jonas Cohonas wrote:
>
>>>Fruit probably can be stronger if Fabien improves the search but based on emails
>>>that he sent me his choice is to concentrate in the near future in improving the
>>>evaluation that is already very good evaluation and only in 2006 he is going to
>>>work on improving the search.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>Somehow i have more faith in Fabien on this issue ;)
>
>I strongly agree that Fabien is correct on his focus. His search is much
>stronger than his eval at this point.
1)I did not say that he is wrong but only that it is clear that fruit's
evaluation is already very good.
Of course it does not prove that the potential gain from imnproving the
evaluation is not bigger than the potential gain from improvement in the search.
2)I do not understand how you can compare search with evaluation and say that
the search is stronger.
The only comparison that is possible to do is between evaluations and it seems
to me that fruit's evaluation is superior relative to the evaluation of other
chess programs.
Here are some games when Fruit's evaluation proves itself as superior relative
to shredder's evaluation.
In the first game both engines believe that they have better position and fruit
turns out to be right.
Shredder is less optimistic for white but still optimistic for white with no
justified basis.
In the second game at moves 27-29 Fruit believe that it has the advantage when
shredder believe it is equal and it seems again that Fruit evaluates it better.
evaluation of shredder default is not very different and when it see small
advantage for black that is better than colombus egg it only see a small
advantage.
Note that based on counting material fruit is a pawn up at moves 27-29 but
shredder seems to be unable even to count material.
[Event "CEGT 40/40 (2 Ghz)"]
[Site "CEGT"]
[Date "2005.10.16"]
[Round "7.1"]
[White "Shredder 9 Columbus'egg 9g"]
[Black "Fruit 2.2 Uri"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B70"]
[PlyCount "84"]
[EventDate "2005.09.05"]
[EventType "tourn"]
[TimeControl "40/1080:0"]
1. e4 {0} c5 {0} 2. Nf3 {0} d6 {0} 3. d4 {0} cxd4 {0} 4. Nxd4 {0} Nf6 {0} 5.
Nc3 {0} g6 {0} 6. Bc4 {0} Bg7 {0} 7. h3 {0} O-O {0} 8. Bb3 {0} a6 {0} 9. O-O {0
} b5 {0} 10. a4 {0.42/15 50} Bb7 {(bxa4) 0.16/14 39} 11. axb5 {0.27/16 99} Nxe4
{0.19/15 39} 12. Nxe4 {0.27/15 31} Bxe4 {0.04/14 33} 13. Qe2 {(Te1) 0.29/14 23}
Bb7 {(axb5) 0.19/14 37} 14. Rd1 {(Le3) 0.36/14 28} e5 {0.43/13 25} 15. Nc6 {
(Sf3) 0.37/15 37} Nxc6 {-0.14/14 31} 16. bxc6 {0.31/16 42} Bxc6 {-0.20/14 35}
17. Rxa6 {(Dd3) 0.29/17 35} Qc7 {(Txa6) -0.04/14 41} 18. Rxa8 {0.46/16 31} Rxa8
{-0.04/14 25} 19. Bg5 {(Le3) 0.41/16 27} Qb7 {-0.38/14 25} 20. Qd3 {
(Txd6) 0.36/16 62} Bxg2 {(Lf8) -0.44/15 36} 21. Qxd6 {0.74/17 28} Qf3 {
(Lh1) -0.42/15 41} 22. Qd8+ {(Dd5) 0.91/16 30} Bf8 {-0.31/16 35} 23. Qd5 {
0.89/16 34} Ra7 {(Dxd5) -0.28/15 22} 24. Qxf3 {(Le3) 0.71/17 40} Bxf3 {
-0.35/14 9} 25. Rc1 {(Td8) 0.22/17 63} Kg7 {-0.59/16 38} 26. Be3 {
(Lc4) 0.07/17 40} Ra8 {(Tb7) -0.66/16 23} 27. Bd2 {(Lc4) -0.04/17 29} h6 {
(f5) -0.65/15 75} 28. Bc4 {(Te1) 0.02/16 22} Be7 {(f5) -0.65/15 30} 29. Re1 {
0.17/15 24} f6 {(Ld6) -0.52/15 25} 30. c3 {(b4) 0.17/17 29} g5 {
(Td8) -0.54/15 30} 31. b4 {0.18/17 37} Rd8 {(Kg6) -0.51/15 27} 32. Be2 {
0.12/18 19} Be4 {(Txd2) -0.38/16 34} 33. Be3 {0.34/17 34} Rc8 {-0.41/16 38} 34.
Rc1 {0.53/17 22} Kg6 {(Kf7) -0.33/16 93} 35. Ba6 {0.74/18 21} Rd8 {-0.31/16 37}
36. b5 {(Le2) 0.72/18 21} f5 {(La3) -0.75/15 19} 37. c4 {0.29/18 43} Bb4 {
(La3) -0.86/16 34} 38. Kh2 {(Tf1) 0.18/17 30} h5 {(Kf6) -1.17/16 25} 39. Ra1 {
(Tg1) 0.10/16 19} g4 {(f4) -2.55/16 45} 40. Kg1 {-3.18/16 26} f4 {-3.28/17 32}
41. Bb6 {-6.00/20 158} Rd3 {-3.89/17 37} 42. hxg4 {-5.24/18 32} hxg4 {
-4.13/16 21} 0-1
[Event "CEGT 40/40 (2 Ghz)"]
[Site "CEGT"]
[Date "2005.10.17"]
[Round "11.1"]
[White "Shredder 9 Columbus'egg 9g"]
[Black "Fruit 2.2 Uri"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "E20"]
[PlyCount "128"]
[EventDate "2005.09.05"]
[EventType "tourn"]
[TimeControl "40/1080:0"]
1. d4 {0} Nf6 {0} 2. c4 {0} e6 {0} 3. g3 {0} Bb4+ {0} 4. Nc3 {0} c5 {0} 5. Nf3
{0} cxd4 {0} 6. Nxd4 {0} O-O {0} 7. Bg2 {0} d5 {0} 8. cxd5 {0} Nxd5 {0} 9. Bd2
{0} Nxc3 {0} 10. bxc3 {0} Be7 {0} 11. Qb1 {-0.03/16 80} Na6 {0.02/13 23} 12.
Qc2 {(Lf4) -0.13/16 56} Qc7 {(e5) -0.10/13 42} 13. O-O {-0.14/15 34} Rd8 {
(Sc5) 0.00/13 25} 14. Nf3 {(Le3) -0.17/14 40} Nc5 {(f6) -0.19/14 42} 15. Bf4 {
-0.14/16 46} Bd6 {(Da5) -0.34/15 44} 16. Ng5 {(Lxd6) 0.08/16 43} f5 {
-0.39/15 42} 17. Bxd6 {(Le3) 0.09/16 32} Rxd6 {-0.37/15 39} 18. Rfd1 {
(Tad1) -0.04/16 44} Rxd1+ {(Ld7) -0.37/14 35} 19. Rxd1 {0.02/16 5} Bd7 {
-0.37/15 41} 20. Qb2 {-0.07/16 65} Rc8 {(Te8) -0.38/14 33} 21. Qb4 {
(c4) -0.11/16 32} a5 {(b6) -0.41/14 24} 22. Qd4 {0.20/16 36} h6 {
(b6) -0.29/15 51} 23. Nf3 {-0.01/16 32} Bb5 {-0.11/15 44} 24. Ne5 {
(c4) -0.13/16 51} Bxe2 {-0.57/16 42} 25. Rd2 {-0.07/15 12} Bh5 {
(La6) -0.57/16 39} 26. c4 {0.00/17 32} Kh7 {(Db6) -0.60/15 23} 27. f4 {
(h3) 0.00/16 37} g5 {(a4) -0.62/14 39} 28. fxg5 {(h3) 0.00/16 54} hxg5 {
-0.68/13 26} 29. Qe3 {(h3) 0.00/16 50} Qg7 {(Kh6) -0.68/14 40} 30. Rd6 {
(h3) -0.15/15 43} Qe7 {(g4) -0.68/13 22} 31. Rd2 {(Dd4) -0.15/14 37} Kg8 {
(g4) -0.68/13 51} 32. Rd4 {-0.15/14 17} Be8 {-0.75/14 28} 33. Rd2 {
(h3) -0.17/15 30} g4 {(Df6) -0.85/14 40} 34. Rd1 {-0.20/14 19} Qf6 {
(Kh7) -0.86/14 29} 35. Re1 {(Tb1) -0.25/14 30} Kh7 {(Dd8) -0.89/14 82} 36. Rb1
{-0.25/14 18} Qg7 {(Tc7) -0.90/14 24} 37. Rd1 {(Lc6) -0.32/14 41} Ne4 {
(Dh6) -1.14/14 17} 38. Qd4 {(Df4) -0.52/13 13} Rc5 {(Sg5) -0.91/14 26} 39. Qd8
{-0.51/14 20} Rxe5 {-0.84/14 23} 40. Qxe8 {-0.68/16 15} Nf6 {-0.94/15 41} 41.
Qd8 {(Dc8) -0.61/16 30} Kg6 {-1.04/14 24} 42. Qd6 {-0.85/15 42} Ne4 {
(Te2) -1.14/14 26} 43. Qd8 {0.00/14 9} Ng5 {(Sf6) -1.11/14 32} 44. a4 {
(Lf1) -1.10/14 134} Re2 {-1.60/12 23} 45. Rd4 {(Tf1) -1.55/13 54} Ra2 {
(Tc2) -1.87/13 44} 46. c5 {-2.14/14 57} Rc2 {(Ta1+) -1.92/13 29} 47. Rd1 {
(De8+) -1.96/14 25} Rxc5 {(Sf7) -2.27/13 27} 48. Kh1 {-2.03/15 47} Rc2 {
(Kh6) -2.20/14 19} 49. Qe8+ {(Tg1) -2.25/14 53} Kh6 {-2.39/14 28} 50. Re1 {
(Dd8) -2.64/15 34} b6 {(Te2) -2.46/14 22} 51. Bc6 {(Db8) -2.96/14 49} Qf6 {
(Td2) -2.64/13 18} 52. Qd7 {(Lg2) -3.14/14 28} Ne4 {(e5) -2.69/14 21} 53. Rf1 {
-3.43/15 37} Rd2 {-2.69/14 24} 54. Qc8 {-3.43/15 17} Nf2+ {(Sc5) -2.68/14 37}
55. Kg1 {-2.98/14 9} Nh3+ {-2.65/14 46} 56. Kh1 {-2.98/10 0} Ng5 {
(f4) -2.65/15 30} 57. Re1 {-3.62/14 31} e5 {(Dd8) -2.99/14 16} 58. Bg2 {
-4.00/14 29} e4 {-3.00/15 33} 59. Qa8 {(Db8) -4.10/14 29} Kg7 {
(Ta2) -3.16/13 17} 60. Qc8 {-3.98/14 22} e3 {(Sf3) -3.31/14 29} 61. Qc7+ {
-4.07/13 22} Kg6 {-3.76/15 59} 62. Qc8 {-4.09/14 12} Qe5 {(De6) -3.61/14 20}
63. Qc6+ {(Dg8+) -6.64/14 121} Rd6 {-4.88/15 16} 64. Qc4 {-7.06/14 16} e2 {
-5.58/15 27} 0-1
Uri
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