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Subject: Re: a simple position (some engines for Fritz including crafty cannot solve)

Author: blass uri

Date: 11:06:29 03/14/99

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On March 14, 1999 at 12:18:28, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On March 14, 1999 at 10:24:26, blass uri wrote:
>
>>R4b1q/5Pp1/Pk4Pp/3K3P/7P/8/8/8 w - - 0 1
>>
>>white wins by 1.a7
>>Genius3 finds it in less than 1 second
>>
>>unfortunately some engines for Fritz5 cannot solve it(crafty16.5's move is Ke6
>>and the evaluation is 0.00 at depth 19,exchess2.51's move is Ke6 and the
>>evaluation is 0.00 at depth 14 )
>>
>>I understand that after 1.a7 Kb7 2.Re8 Kxa7 3.Kc6 white has no threat.
>>
>>Is it the reason that  these engines cannot solve it?
>>
>>Do they use null move with an infinite R so they do not analyze at all even to
>>reduced depth moves with no threat?
>>
>>Fritz5(16 bit) surprises and solves this position but only at depth 14.
>>The move is Ke6 at the beginning of iteration 14 with the strange evaluation
>>-0.47.
>>
>>Suddenly fritz5(16 bit) sees Kc4 with evaluation -0.44.
>>The evaluation jumps to 8.xx
>>
>>Kc4 is winning and fritz saw winning evaluation so I can say that Fritz can
>>solve it.
>>
>>Fritz5(16 bit) at depth 15 changes its mind to the simpler winning move 1.a7
>>
>>Junior5 has no problem to solve the position because it is not a null mover.
>>
>>Uri
>
>
>this is simply one of the many null-move killer positions.  Nothing much to do
>about it either...
>
>However, for every one of these that comes up, I've seen 10 where a
>non-null-mover can't get deep enough to solve the position.

The differnece is that non-null movers can get deep enough to solve the position
if they had more time and null movers cannot solve some positions and it is not
a problem of time.

I think that it is better to analyze moves with no threat to reduced depth so
you do not use more than 1% of your time for analyzing moves with no threat.

Uri



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