Author: Ryan B.
Date: 01:36:17 11/18/05
Go up one level in this thread
On November 18, 2005 at 04:08:25, Uri Blass wrote: >On November 17, 2005 at 23:13:02, Chessfun wrote: > >>On November 17, 2005 at 21:59:13, Telmo C. Escobar wrote: >> >>>On November 17, 2005 at 17:43:39, Joachim Rang wrote: >>> >>>>On November 17, 2005 at 16:19:13, Marc Lacrosse wrote: >>>> >>>>>As I consider that Fabien Letouzey and Joachim Rang did not act with minimally >>>>>correct behaviour toward myself on their way for going commercial with Fruit, I >>>>>asked them to be removed from the list of their team members on >>>>>www.fruitchess.com. >>>>> >>>>>Although they promised to do it, nothing has been done for weeks and I am still >>>>>being presented as their book-cooker on fruitchess.com although Fruit has >>>>>already been playing inbetween in a public competition with someone else's book. >>>>> >>>>>So I decided to let you know that I just sent the following mail to them (see at >>>>>the end of this post) >>>>> >>>>>Marc Lacrosse >>>>> >>>>>COPY OF MY MAIL: >>>>> >>>>>Dear Fabien, Dear Joachim, >>>>> >>>>>In his 12.11.2005 mail Joachim told me that he would mention on fruitchess.com >>>>>that i am not Fruit's bookcooker anymore. >>>>>As this is not yet done today 17.11.2005 I send this last mail to you and begin >>>>>to switch to other kinds of actions. >>>>> >>>>>Considering how you deal with those who helped you graciously with hours and >>>>>days (or weeks!) of work before you decided to try to get some money from these >>>>>largely collective efforts, I think that the computer chess community should be >>>>>aware of your way of acting. >>>>> >>>>>Clearly as long as I could be of some help, I was scarcely given some minimal >>>>>knowledge of what was going on. But at the same time you were glad to get my bug >>>>>reports, parameters tunings and opening preparations while you were already busy >>>>>attributing my job in the team to someone else. >>>>> >>>>>That's your way of going on. I am quite sure that it won't be too successful in >>>>>the long run. I already have records of several talented people who once helped >>>>>you and clearly decided to go away or already started to help other concurrent >>>>>initiatives. >>>>> >>>>>Several weeks have passed since i first asked you to be removed from the >>>>>description of your team's members on fruitchess.com. You clearly decided not to >>>>>do anything as other components of your site were updated inbetween. Be it your >>>>>laziness or anything else doesn't matter anymore : time has come to let all this >>>>>be known on chess computing forums. >>>>> >>>>>In case this should not be sufficient, I keep open all options of proceeding >>>>>with legal action against your abusive use of my name and work on your site. >>>>> >>>>>Pr.Dr. Marc Lacrosse >>>> >>>> >>>>Dear Marc, >>>> >>>>I have now removed your name from our site. I'm very sad that our cooperation >>>>ended this way and I feel sorry about that. After your retirement after >>>>CCTBlitz05 I planned for long to write to you a detailed email - however >>>>personal circumstances have made this impossible. >>>> >>>>I hope I will find the time to do so in the future so that we can at least try >>>>to understand what went wrong. I prefer not to comment on your content of your >>>>email publicly but I will do it privately. >>>> >>>>Again I'm sorry for the disappointment you feel about making an opening book for >>>>Fruit. >>>> >>>>Joachim >>> >>> >>> My impression is that M Lacrosse never implied that his work on the opening >>>book for Fruit could be regarded as disappointing. Rather, he seems to feel sad >>>that his work could be inadequately judged because Fruit is now using an >>>inferior book made by someone else. >>> >>> Telmo >> >>Then you must have got that elsewhere as I don't read it here. Elsewhere even I >>didn't read that. Sure there was the comments on Fruits games in Leiden but I >>certainly didn't read that he felt or feels sad that "Fruit is now using an >>inferior book." >> >>That claim anyway couldn't be made after so few an amount of games and the book >>author Jeroen has years of experience plus I find it very professional of him >>not to have replied in those threads. >> >>Finally as Marc himself put it; >>"This is the second loss of Fruit against Diep (out of two competition games!) >>due to inappropriate opening choice by Fruit's book cooker, leading to >>objectively satisfying positions that Fruit plays badly and thus to subsequent >>disaster. First time I was the cooker, this time Jeroen is to be blamed." >> >>Marc clearly did a good job with Fruit's book as Joachim himself stated "So far >>this cooperation is only for the Leiden tournament. Currently Fruit has no >>regular book author (Marc Lacrosse decided not to continue his engagement in >>books for Fruit)." >> >>Sarah. > >One possibility is that fruit is not going to need a human book cooker. > >It may be possible if Fabien or someone else is going to write a program that >cooks a book for fruit. > >I believe that everything that humans can do programs can do better if the right >programmer do the programming job. > >programs can play chess better than humans and I see no reason to think that >they cannot cook books better than humans. > >Fabien may not have the time to work on the relevant program and most >programmers do not have the ability or the interest to work on the relevant >program but I think that if fabien does not plan to write a program that cook >books for fruit then it may be better if a good programmer joins the fruit team >and one time writes a program that cooks book for fruit against specific >opponents when the program can be used again and again(of course it can try >different lines against the relevant opponents and not assume that the opponents >are going to use the public book). > >Uri I no not know how a computer could make a opening book better than a person when openings are based on history and strong human players are very well studied on historical games/opening. If the fruit team where to add another member (not that they need another member) I think it would be good to have someone who is a programmer and a chess player but not for the opening book and I doubt Fabian feels he needs this and I get the feeling that Nooman will be the next addition to the Fruit team anyway for his opening book if he is not considered part of the team already. Ryan
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