Author: Zheng Zhixian
Date: 06:58:04 11/19/05
Go up one level in this thread
On November 17, 2005 at 23:13:02, Chessfun wrote: >On November 17, 2005 at 21:59:13, Telmo C. Escobar wrote: > >>On November 17, 2005 at 17:43:39, Joachim Rang wrote: >> >>>On November 17, 2005 at 16:19:13, Marc Lacrosse wrote: >>> >>>>As I consider that Fabien Letouzey and Joachim Rang did not act with minimally >>>>correct behaviour toward myself on their way for going commercial with Fruit, I >>>>asked them to be removed from the list of their team members on >>>>www.fruitchess.com. >>>> >>>>Although they promised to do it, nothing has been done for weeks and I am still >>>>being presented as their book-cooker on fruitchess.com although Fruit has >>>>already been playing inbetween in a public competition with someone else's book. >>>> >>>>So I decided to let you know that I just sent the following mail to them (see at >>>>the end of this post) >>>> >>>>Marc Lacrosse >>>> >>>>COPY OF MY MAIL: >>>> >>>>Dear Fabien, Dear Joachim, >>>> >>>>In his 12.11.2005 mail Joachim told me that he would mention on fruitchess.com >>>>that i am not Fruit's bookcooker anymore. >>>>As this is not yet done today 17.11.2005 I send this last mail to you and begin >>>>to switch to other kinds of actions. >>>> >>>>Considering how you deal with those who helped you graciously with hours and >>>>days (or weeks!) of work before you decided to try to get some money from these >>>>largely collective efforts, I think that the computer chess community should be >>>>aware of your way of acting. >>>> >>>>Clearly as long as I could be of some help, I was scarcely given some minimal >>>>knowledge of what was going on. But at the same time you were glad to get my bug >>>>reports, parameters tunings and opening preparations while you were already busy >>>>attributing my job in the team to someone else. >>>> >>>>That's your way of going on. I am quite sure that it won't be too successful in >>>>the long run. I already have records of several talented people who once helped >>>>you and clearly decided to go away or already started to help other concurrent >>>>initiatives. >>>> >>>>Several weeks have passed since i first asked you to be removed from the >>>>description of your team's members on fruitchess.com. You clearly decided not to >>>>do anything as other components of your site were updated inbetween. Be it your >>>>laziness or anything else doesn't matter anymore : time has come to let all this >>>>be known on chess computing forums. >>>> >>>>In case this should not be sufficient, I keep open all options of proceeding >>>>with legal action against your abusive use of my name and work on your site. >>>> >>>>Pr.Dr. Marc Lacrosse >>> >>> >>>Dear Marc, >>> >>>I have now removed your name from our site. I'm very sad that our cooperation >>>ended this way and I feel sorry about that. After your retirement after >>>CCTBlitz05 I planned for long to write to you a detailed email - however >>>personal circumstances have made this impossible. >>> >>>I hope I will find the time to do so in the future so that we can at least try >>>to understand what went wrong. I prefer not to comment on your content of your >>>email publicly but I will do it privately. >>> >>>Again I'm sorry for the disappointment you feel about making an opening book for >>>Fruit. >>> >>>Joachim >> >> >> My impression is that M Lacrosse never implied that his work on the opening >>book for Fruit could be regarded as disappointing. Rather, he seems to feel sad >>that his work could be inadequately judged because Fruit is now using an >>inferior book made by someone else. >> >> Telmo > >Then you must have got that elsewhere as I don't read it here. Elsewhere even I >didn't read that. Sure there was the comments on Fruits games in Leiden but I >certainly didn't read that he felt or feels sad that "Fruit is now using an >inferior book." Funny, the distinct impression I get is he is blaming the book for Fruit's "Disappointing" results. Okay maybe he is not blaming the whole book, but just the openings played in the games. :) Even your quotes before say so Also see http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?461426 which now makes a lot of sense. The "disappointing results" of Fruit. >That claim anyway couldn't be made after so few an amount of games and the book >author Jeroen has years of experience Really? Kind of like saying how disappointing Fruits results are before the tournament is complete? :) Like saying 2nd place is not good enough, presumably because a better book would be secured 1st? >Finally as Marc himself put it; >"This is the second loss of Fruit against Diep (out of two competition games!) >due to inappropriate opening choice by Fruit's book cooker, leading to >objectively satisfying positions that Fruit plays badly and thus to subsequent >disaster. First time I was the cooker, this time Jeroen is to be blamed." Translation : Blame Jeroen because he is giving fruit a bad book. And also http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?461585 >From the presumed strongest program in the world this figure was indeed extremely disappointing to say the least. Strange statement but I think most people presume Zappa is the strongest program in the world. But then again, I suppose if you are determined to maximise the importance of the opening book and avoiding blaming the engine, you praise it as the best in the world even after it came in 2nd. >And even though Fruit managed to finish second after that, the way these points had been lost remains questioning. Translation: Lost because of opening. >In my opinion this was related to inadequate opening preparation and I intended to discuss and analyse this in the thread. Ergo bad book. I think it's patently obvious somebody is making a case that Fruit's results are "disappointing" because the opening book is bad. >Marc clearly did a good job with Fruit's book as Joachim himself stated "So far >this cooperation is only for the Leiden tournament. Currently Fruit has no >regular book author (Marc Lacrosse decided not to continue his engagement in >books for Fruit)." Heh, you must be kidding. You seriously think Marc is going to be the official book cooker for Fruit in future tourneys?
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