Author: Sune Larsson
Date: 13:43:03 11/19/05
Go up one level in this thread
On November 19, 2005 at 16:13:18, Andreas Guettinger wrote: >On November 19, 2005 at 15:54:08, Sune Larsson wrote: > >>On November 19, 2005 at 15:44:46, chandler yergin wrote: >> >>>On November 19, 2005 at 15:29:44, Sune Larsson wrote: >>> >>>>On November 19, 2005 at 14:15:59, Terry McCracken wrote: >>>> >>>>>On November 19, 2005 at 14:08:42, Sune Larsson wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>...of those highly inferior game databases. The creator (or collector) can even >>>>>>state that the DB is "totally free from duplicates" - or "one of the cleanest >>>>>>there is with 0.?? % doubles". As long as the player names and tournaments are >>>>>>not completly worked through - this is all nonsense. Such a DB is just bad. >>>>>>Doublechecks will never find those false games, games with wrong moves, wrong >>>>>>names etc. And people put these games into trees to create books for their >>>>>>engines... I won't hang out any names of people making money from bad DB:s - but >>>>>>a hint: Check out the playerbase and the tournament tables - then you'll get a >>>>>>clue. Below some games from just one tourney - just to show you what I mean by >>>>>>false games... >>>>>> >>>>>>[Event "Poznan"] >>>>>>[Site "Poznan"] >>>>>>[Date "1987.??.??"] >>>>>>[Round "?"] >>>>>>[White "Adamcik, M."] >>>>>>[Black "Maciejewski, M."] >>>>>>[Result "0-1"] >>>>>>[ECO "E91"] >>>>>>[BlackElo "2365"] >>>>>>[PlyCount "40"] >>>>>>[EventDate "1987.??.??"] >>>>>>[SourceDate "2001.01.01"] >>>>>> >>>>>>1. c4 Nf6 2. Nc3 g6 3. e4 d6 4. d4 Bg7 5. Be2 O-O 6. Nf3 c5 7. O-O Bg4 8. d5 >>>>>>Na6 9. h3 Bxf3 10. Bxf3 Nc7 11. Bf4 Nd7 12. Qd2 Re8 13. Rab1 a6 14. a4 Rb8 15. >>>>>>Be2 Nb6 16. a5 Nd7 17. b3 Ne6 18. Qc1 Ra8 19. Nb5 axb5 20. Ra1 b4 0-1 >>>>>> >>>>>>[Event "Poznan"] >>>>>>[Site "Poznan"] >>>>>>[Date "1987.??.??"] >>>>>>[Round "?"] >>>>>>[White "Drzemicki, D."] >>>>>>[Black "Malis, J."] >>>>>>[Result "0-1"] >>>>>>[ECO "B06"] >>>>>>[WhiteElo "2300"] >>>>>>[BlackElo "2190"] >>>>>>[PlyCount "43"] >>>>>>[EventDate "1987.??.??"] >>>>>>[SourceDate "2001.01.01"] >>>>>> >>>>>>1. d4 g6 2. e4 c6 3. c3 d5 4. e5 a6 5. Bd3 b6 6. h4 h5 7. Qc2 Be6 8. Nh3 Qc8 9. >>>>>>Ng5 Bf5 10. Bxf5 Qxf5 11. Qe2 Nh6 12. Na3 a5 13. Nc2 Qc8 14. e6 f6 15. Nh3 Qa6 >>>>>>16. Qf3 Kd8 17. Ne3 a4 18. Bd2 Qc4 19. Nc2 Qxd4 20. Qd3 Ra5 21. Qg3 Nf7 22. >>>>>>Qc7+ 0-1 >>>>>> >>>>>>[Event "Poznan"] >>>>>>[Site "Poznan"] >>>>>>[Date "1987.??.??"] >>>>>>[Round "?"] >>>>>>[White "Drzemicki, D."] >>>>>>[Black "Soltys, B."] >>>>>>[Result "0-1"] >>>>>>[ECO "A40"] >>>>>>[WhiteElo "2300"] >>>>>>[BlackElo "2270"] >>>>>>[PlyCount "55"] >>>>>>[EventDate "1987.??.??"] >>>>>>[SourceDate "2001.01.01"] >>>>>> >>>>>>1. d4 b5 2. e4 Bb7 3. Nd2 a6 4. Bd3 Nf6 5. Qe2 e6 6. Ngf3 c5 7. c3 cxd4 8. cxd4 >>>>>>Nc6 9. O-O Be7 10. Nb3 d5 11. e5 Nd7 12. Bd2 Qb6 13. Rac1 b4 14. Be3 a5 15. Rc2 >>>>>>a4 16. Nbd2 Qa5 17. b3 Nf8 18. bxa4 Ra6 19. Bxa6 Bd8 20. Qd3 Bxa6 21. Rxc6 Qc7 >>>>>>22. Qc2 b3 23. Re1 g6 24. Rd1 Rg8 25. Qb2 bxa2 26. Qa3 h5 27. Rc2 Bc8 28. Qe7+ >>>>>>0-1 >>>>>> >>>>>>[Event "Poznan"] >>>>>>[Site "Poznan"] >>>>>>[Date "1987.??.??"] >>>>>>[Round "?"] >>>>>>[White "Jakubowski, J."] >>>>>>[Black "Soltys, B."] >>>>>>[Result "1-0"] >>>>>>[ECO "A40"] >>>>>>[WhiteElo "2250"] >>>>>>[BlackElo "2270"] >>>>>>[PlyCount "28"] >>>>>>[EventDate "1987.??.??"] >>>>>>[SourceDate "2001.01.01"] >>>>>> >>>>>>1. d4 b5 2. Nf3 e6 3. Bf4 c5 4. e3 Qb6 5. Nc3 a6 6. dxc5 Bxc5 7. a4 b4 8. Ne4 >>>>>>Nf6 9. a5 Qc6 10. Ng3 Qb5 11. Ne2 Ba7 12. Ng5 Bxe3 13. Nh3 Bxf4 14. g3 Qg5 1-0 >>>>>> >>>>>>[Event "Poznan"] >>>>>>[Site "Poznan"] >>>>>>[Date "1987.??.??"] >>>>>>[Round "?"] >>>>>>[White "Jezierski, P."] >>>>>>[Black "Maciejewski, M."] >>>>>>[Result "1-0"] >>>>>>[ECO "C84"] >>>>>>[WhiteElo "2310"] >>>>>>[BlackElo "2365"] >>>>>>[PlyCount "81"] >>>>>>[EventDate "1987.??.??"] >>>>>>[SourceDate "2001.01.01"] >>>>>> >>>>>>1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. d4 exd4 6. O-O Be7 7. e5 Ne4 8. >>>>>>Nxd4 O-O 9. Nf5 d5 10. exd6 Bf6 11. Bxc6 Bxf5 12. Bxb7 Rb8 13. Bxa6 Bxb2 14. >>>>>>dxc7 Qxc7 15. Bxb2 Rxb2 16. Bd3 Bg6 17. Qf3 Ng5 18. Qe3 Ne6 19. Na3 Ra8 20. Nb5 >>>>>>Qa5 21. a4 Rb4 22. Nc3 Rc8 23. Bb5 Rb2 24. Nd5 Rcxc2 25. Nf4 Nf8 26. Nxg6 hxg6 >>>>>>27. Rac1 Qc7 28. h3 Ne6 29. Rxc2 Qxc2 30. Rc1 Rb1 31. Rxb1 Qxb1+ 32. Kh2 Qb4 >>>>>>33. Qe5 Kh7 34. Bd7 Nc5 35. Qd6 Qc3 36. Be8 Qc4 37. a5 Ne4 38. Qg3 g5 39. Qxg5 >>>>>>Kg8 40. f4 Qc8 41. Bc6 1-0 >>>>>> >>>>>>/S >>>>> >>>>>That is bad...what's the solution to such incompetence? >>>> >>>> >>>> I would suggest to buy one good DB and stick to that one for a start. My first >>>>choice would be ChessBase BigBase (or MegaBase if you want commented games). CB >>>>has an excellent PlayerBase with nicely workedthrough tournaments. Second choice >>>>would be the ChessAssistent Base - but I'm not so familiar with this one. Just >>>>heard reports from other collectors. Then be very careful with what games you >>>>add yourself - meaning checking out names and tournaments. Of course it's also >>>>possible to buy a new DB each year but... >>>> >>>>/S >>> Just keep downloading from TWIC weekly.. and Paste into the database you have. >>>No need to buy another. >> >> >> Mixing TWIC up with what? CB:s Big or Mega? Okey - then you will have Carlsen, >>Magnus + Carlsen, M --- Timman, Jan + Timman, J etcetera in your playerbase. I >>like TWIC but they have mostly one letter for the first name. In bad DB:s you >>can find like 20 spellings of Kortschnoj, Viktor... >> >>/S > >In some databases progs like scid you can correct the player names >automatically. The player names are compared with a player name database and >corrected, if the names are ambigous or there are several possibilities you have >to assist to make the corrections. >It is a real pain to work through a big database like this, but TWIC updates >come in handy pieces (I think monthly updates) an can be corrected easily. >I like the TWIC files because they come as pgn and can be easily imported into >any database, and the games are mostly from recent tournaments, so you can keep >your db up to date. Of course TWIC does nort cover all the tournaments (like e.g >computer tournaments), but the most important ones. > >- Andy Yes, I like TWIC - but all names cannot be corrected in Scid. Furthermore they have different names compared with CB. An example: a game from TWIC with Geller, Al - *might* be transformed in scid to Geller, Alexander - but CB wants Geller, Alexander P. So in this case you'll end up with two players in the playerbase instead of one. [Maybe a fictive example cause in my scid there is no Geller, A at all...] Since Partidas Gratis from Argentine just stopped in jan-05, maybe TWIC is the relatively best upgrade source right now. Don't know for sure. PG was excellent and presented CB quality - they had worked with names and tourneys and adjusted them to CB. /S
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