Author: Arifur Rahman
Date: 05:26:31 11/22/05
Go up one level in this thread
On November 21, 2005 at 21:01:45, Richard Heldmann wrote: >On November 21, 2005 at 14:55:58, Arifur Rahman wrote: > >>The position after 39 Qg3 seems to be a difficult for the chess programs, not >>only for Fritz 9. >> >>I checked the position with Shredder 9. >> >>After 8 minutes at depth 19 Shredder 9 likes the move 39...Bc2?? also. Shredder >>rates the move as the second best (with eval -2.6) after the first choice Qg3. >> >>Maybe both Fritz and Shredder would discard the move totally with faster >>hardware at deeper depth. Maybe Fritz didnt have enough time at move 39, just >>before the time control. >> >> >>/Arifur > >I can't agree, on my machine the analysis by Shredder 9.1 UCI seems clear. >Fritz 9 has a problem with this position. > >6k1/5p2/pn1p4/N2p2p1/PP1Pp2q/1BrbP1QP/6K1/4R3 b - - > >Engine: Shredder 9 UCI (256 MB) >by Stefan Meyer-Kahlen > >1/02 0:00 +0.81-- 1...Qxg3+ (2) > >1/02 0:00 +0.81 1...Qxg3+ (5) > >1/07 0:00 +0.84++ 1...Rc7 (50) > >1/07 0:00 +0.97 1...Rc7 2.Qxh4 gxh4 (59) > >1/11 0:00 +1.24++ 1...Qh6 (173) > >1/11 0:00 +1.24 1...Qh6 (174) > >2/05 0:00 +1.01 1...Qh6 2.Rg1 (244) > >2/05 0:00 +1.42++ 1...Qxg3+ (271) > >2/05 0:00 +1.42 1...Qxg3+ 2.Kxg3 f5 (299) > >3/07 0:00 +1.28 1...Qxg3+ 2.Kxg3 f5 3.h4 (560) > >3/08 0:00 +1.33++ 1...Qh6 (904) > >3/08 0:00 +1.43 1...Qh6 2.Rg1 f5 (1.026) > >3/08 0:00 +1.52++ 1...Bc2 (1.653) > >3/08 0:00 +2.03++ 1...Bc2 (1.782) > >3/09 0:00 +2.18 1...Bc2 2.Qxh4 gxh4 3.Ba2 Bxa4 (1.886) > >4/09 0:00 +2.18 1...Bc2 2.Qxh4 gxh4 3.Ba2 Bxa4 (2.273) > >5/10 0:00 +2.43++ 1...Bc2 2.Qxh4 (3.396) > >5/12 0:00 +2.45 1...Bc2 2.Qxh4 gxh4 3.Rc1 Rxb3 > 4.Rxc2 (3.898) 243 > >6/14 0:00 +2.38 1...Bc2 2.Qxh4 gxh4 3.Bxc2 Rxc2+ > 4.Kf1 Nxa4 5.Nb7 Rb2 (9.632) 301 > >7/17 0:00 +2.13-- 1...Bc2 2.Qxh4 (24.052) 304 > >7/17 0:00 +1.69 1...Bc2 2.Qxh4 gxh4 3.Rc1 Rxb3 > 4.Nxb3 Bxb3 5.Rc6 Nxa4 6.Rxa6 (27.421) 347 > >7/19 0:00 +1.70++ 1...Qxg3+ (34.506) 313 > >7/19 0:00 +2.04 1...Qxg3+ 2.Kxg3 f5 3.Rg1 Bc4 (46.309) 328 > >8/20 0:00 +2.25 1...Qxg3+ 2.Kxg3 f5 3.Kf2 Bc2 4.Bxc2 Rxc2+ > 5.Kg3 Nc4 6.Nb7 Kf7 (88.086) 402 > >9/22 0:00 +2.00-- 1...Qxg3+ 2.Kxg3 (111.008) 417 > >9/22 0:00 +1.90 1...Qxg3+ 2.Kxg3 f5 3.Kf2 Kg7 4.Bd1 Ra3 > 5.Nb7 Ra2+ 6.Kg3 Nxa4 7.Nxd6 (135.599) 412 > >9/22 0:00 +1.91++ 1...Bc2 (153.881) 427 > >9/22 0:00 +1.98 1...Bc2 2.Qxh4 gxh4 3.Rc1 Rxb3 > 4.Nxb3 Bxb3 5.Rc6 Nxa4 6.Rxa6 Nc3 > 7.Rxd6 (162.760) 416 > >10/20 0:00 +1.73-- 1...Bc2 2.Qxh4 (201.540) 429 > >10/25 0:00 +1.60 1...Bc2 2.Qxh4 gxh4 3.Rc1 Rxb3 > 4.Nxb3 Bxb3 5.Rc6 Nc4 6.Rxa6 Nxe3+ > 7.Kf2 Nd1+ 8.Ke1 Kf8 9.Rxd6 Bxa4 (239.915) 438 > >10/25 0:00 +1.61++ 1...Qxg3+ (248.120) 428 > >10/25 0:00 +1.95 1...Qxg3+ 2.Kxg3 f5 3.Kf2 Kg7 4.Bd1 f4 > 5.exf4 gxf4 6.Rg1+ Kh6 7.h4 Bc2 > 8.Be2 (297.394) 442 > >11/29 0:01 +2.19 1...Qxg3+ 2.Kxg3 f5 3.Kf2 Kg7 4.Bd1 f4 > 5.exf4 gxf4 6.h4 Bc2 7.Rg1+ Kf6 > 8.Be2 Rh3 (591.968) 485 > >12/34 0:02 +2.43 1...Qxg3+ 2.Kxg3 f5 3.Rg1 f4+ 4.Kg4 f3 (1.306.045) 519 > >13/33 0:04 +2.44 1...Qxg3+ 2.Kxg3 f5 3.Rg1 f4+ 4.Kh2 fxe3 > 5.Rxg5+ Kf7 6.Rg1 Bc4 7.Bxc4 dxc4 > 8.h4 Nxa4 9.Kg3 d5 10.h5 (2.164.867) 526 > >14/33 0:06 +2.40 1...Qxg3+ 2.Kxg3 f5 3.Rg1 f4+ 4.Kh2 fxe3 > 5.Rxg5+ Kf7 6.Rg1 Bc4 7.Bxc4 dxc4 > 8.b5 axb5 9.axb5 Ra3 10.Nc6 Rb3 > 11.Rf1+ Ke6 (3.560.986) 534 > >15/34 0:11 +2.64 1...Qxg3+ 2.Kxg3 f5 3.Rg1 f4+ 4.Kh2 fxe3 > 5.Rxg5+ Kh7 6.Rg1 Bc2 7.Bxc2 Rxc2+ > 8.Kg3 Nxa4 (6.374.538) 532 > >16/36 0:19 +2.70 1...Qxg3+ 2.Kxg3 f5 3.Rg1 f4+ 4.Kh2 fxe3 > 5.Rxg5+ Kh7 6.Rg1 Bc2 7.Bxc2 Rxc2+ > 8.Kg3 Nxa4 9.Kf4 Rh2 10.Kg3 Rf2 > 11.Nc6 Nc3 (10.483.308) 539 > >17/38 0:35 +2.75 1...Qxg3+ 2.Kxg3 f5 3.Rg1 f4+ 4.Kh2 fxe3 > 5.Rxg5+ Kf7 6.Rg1 Bc2 7.Bxc2 Rxc2+ > 8.Kg3 Nxa4 9.Kf4 Rf2+ 10.Kxe3 Rf3+ > 11.Kd2 Rd3+ 12.Ke1 Rxh3 13.Nc6 Nc3 (19.153.075) 533 > >18/43 1:11 +2.83 1...Qxg3+ 2.Kxg3 f5 3.Rg1 f4+ 4.Kh2 fxe3 > 5.Rxg5+ Kf7 6.Rg1 Bc2 7.Bxc2 Rxc2+ > 8.Kg3 Nxa4 9.Kf4 Rf2+ 10.Kxe3 Rf3+ > 11.Kd2 Rxh3 12.Nc6 Rd3+ (37.209.711) 522 > >19/44 2:30 +3.02 1...Qxg3+ 2.Kxg3 f5 3.Rg1 f4+ 4.Kh2 fxe3 > 5.Rxg5+ Kf7 6.Rg1 Bc2 7.Bxc2 Rxc2+ > 8.Kg3 Nxa4 9.Rh1 Nb2 (77.377.667) 513 > >20/50 5:23 +3.17 1...Qxg3+ 2.Kxg3 f5 3.Kf2 f4 4.Bd1 Bc2 > 5.Bxc2 Rxc2+ 6.Re2 Rxe2+ 7.Kxe2 f3+ > 8.Ke1 (164.580.292) 508 People(execpt Uri Blass) dont seems to understand the point. Of course Qxg3 is the best move (1st choice), Shredder 9 finds it. I already wrote this in my post. Bxc2 was the SECOND best move for Shredder. But run Shredder with 3 or 2 move option (infinite analysis) for 5 or 6 minutes. Bxc2 should NOT be up there among the top 3 moves. How can a good engine allow a losing move as the second best move in a winning position? Remember that at move 39 Fritz didnt think for 20 min or so,also Fritz is on a laptop.
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