Author: J.Dufek
Date: 13:21:47 12/10/05
Go up one level in this thread
On December 09, 2005 at 16:31:53, Uri Blass wrote: >On December 09, 2005 at 15:53:42, J.Dufek wrote: > >>On December 09, 2005 at 15:24:03, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On December 09, 2005 at 14:52:41, Vasik Rajlich wrote: >>> >>>>On December 09, 2005 at 11:50:42, William Penn wrote: >>>> >>>>>Rybka's analysis is fairly short to begin with, compared to most other engines. >>>>>It reaches its maximum after a few seconds, then it decreases at longer times. >>>>>For example here's an analysis of a position in infinite mode using the Shredder >>>>>Classic GUI. After 3 hours it is already showing a decrease of move information, >>>>>which decreases even further after 10 hours. The specific position doesn't >>>>>matter. I see this same pattern when analyzing any position for a long time. >>>>> >>>>>Engine: Rybka 1.0 Beta 32-bit (704 MB) by Vasik Rajlich >>>>>12.01 0:03 +1.35 32.h4 g4 33.h5 Qf8 34.Qe2 Nb4 35.Rh4 Qe8 36.Ne3 (300.979) >>>>>87 >>>>>13.01 0:06 +1.37 32.h4 g4 33.h5 Qf8 34.Qe2 Nb4 35.Rh4 Qe8 36.Ne3 Qe6 >>>>>(552.306) 90 >>>>>14.01 0:15 +1.36 32.h4 g4 33.h5 Qf8 34.Qe2 Nb4 35.h6 Qf7 36.Qd2 Qe6 >>>>>(1.362.839) 90 >>>>>15.01 2:02 +1.34 32.h4 Qf8 33.hxg5 Rxg5 34.Qf3 Nc7 35.Rh5 Ne6 36.Rxg5 fxg5 >>>>>(9.586.923) 80 >>>>>16.01 3:01 +1.31 32.h4 Qf8 33.hxg5 Rxg5 34.Qf3 Nc7 35.Rh5 Ne6 36.Rxg5 fxg5 >>>>>(14.741.441) 83 >>>>>17.01 5:30 +1.27 32.h4 Qf8 33.hxg5 Rxg5 34.Qf3 Nc7 35.Rh5 Qg8 36.Rh4 Ne6 >>>>>(27.355.485) 84 >>>>>18.01 10:34 +1.19 32.h4 Qf8 33.hxg5 Rxg5 34.Qf3 Nc7 35.Rh5 Qg8 36.Rh4 Rg6 >>>>>(52.200.357) 84 >>>>>19.01 18:28 +1.25 32.h4 Qf8 33.hxg5 Rxg5 34.Qf3 Nc7 35.Rh5 Qg8 36.Rh4 Rg6 >>>>>(90.818.525) 83 >>>>>20.01 42:12 +1.13 32.h4 Qf8 33.hxg5 Rxg5 34.Qf3 Nc7 35.Rh5 Qg8 36.Rah1 Ne6 >>>>>(200.052.005) 80 >>>>>21.01 92:04 +1.18 32.h4 Qf8 33.hxg5 Rxg5 34.Qf3 Nc7 35.Rh5 Qg8 36.Rah1 Ne6 >>>>>(427.366.814) 79 >>>>>22.01 174:11 +1.14 32.h4 Qf8 33.hxg5 Rxg5 34.Qf3 Nc7 (789.072.165) 77 >>>>>23.01 634:58 +1.24 32.h4 Qf8 33.hxg5 (2.860.235.585) 76 >>>>> >>>>>WP >>>> >>>>This is intentional and can _very_ easily be fixed. Please send me an email if >>>>you have a strong opinion about the matter. >>>> >>>>In my opinion, other engines talk too much. The ends of the PVs tend to be >>>>pretty silly. >>>> >>>>Vas >>> >>>I think that they do not talk enough. >>> >>>I think that it is productive to have an option to see more for correspondence >>>games like hash moves that you already remember at small depth for every move. >>> >>>I will be happy if rybka can write them to a text file. >>>The point is that one problem in analysis is that a program may suggest line >>>1.xx yy after many hours of search and you may need hours to see the reason that >>>it rejected 1.xx zz because 1.xx zz is not the pv line >>> >>>If the program can print to a text file the first move that it tries in the >>>first 3 plies then it may be productive. >>> >>>Example in the opening position suppose the pv is 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3,Nxe5 >>> >>>I would like to see in text file something like >>>1)the following 19 lines for depth 2 >>>1.d4 d5 >>>1.c4 e5 >>>... >>>2)the following 19 lines for depth 3 >>>1.e4 a6 2.d4 >>>1.e4 a5 2.d4 >>>... >>> >>>If I do not see it then I may need a long analysis to understand why the program >>>rejected 1.d4 for white or may need a long time to understand why the program >>>rejected 1.e4 a6 for black >>> >>>Note that it may be productive also to have lines at bigger depth for thinking >>>lines that the computer considered for a long time and if the program considered >>>1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 for a long time then I would like to see the hash move after these >>>moves in order to understand why it rejected 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 for white. >>> >>>Uri >> >>Maybe i missed point of your post. In corr. games for lot of players is not >>problem use more computers for analysing position. Then is not problem 1PC-Rybka >>calculate best line, 2PC-Rybka(or other engine) calculate n-best lines and >>3PC-engine use deep analysis in Fritz-GUI or similiar in ChessAssistant... But >>still output in *.txt (from Fritz GUI) will be very nice feature (as minimum for >>possible crash GUI and losing analysis) > > >It is not a problem but suppose that you analyze the following nolot position > >[D]r2qrb1k/1p1b2p1/p2ppn1p/8/3NP3/1BN5/PPP3QP/1K3RR1 w - - 0 1 > >suppose that you even did not think about 1.e5 so it was not analyzed by other >programs and the engine shows line like >1.e5 Nh5 2.Qg6 d5 > >You are interested to know why it rejected the following lines >a)1.e5 dxe5 >b)1.e5 Nh5 2.Qg6 Qh4 > >You get no information about it and you may need hours of analysis to find out. > >If you get the important lines that it analyzed that are not in the pv in a text >file then you get the information. > >Uri ? How do you found these lines? Because you analyze this positions before with engine(s)? How can engine can know, what do you need? Or do you need evalution for all positions after 2-3-4 halfmoves? This output will very slowdown searching and as i known only little about chess programing, for engines is in reality not important concrete variations - when he found variation with worse value than existing, then he go analyse next move...
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.