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Subject: Re: Rybka - How much Fruit is inside ?

Author: Gerd Isenberg

Date: 11:19:26 12/12/05

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On December 12, 2005 at 13:51:44, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>On December 12, 2005 at 02:55:58, Gerd Isenberg wrote:
>>On December 12, 2005 at 02:45:21, Daniel Mehrmannn wrote:
>>>On December 12, 2005 at 02:31:26, Gerd Isenberg wrote:
>>>>On December 11, 2005 at 20:59:08, Daniel Mehrmannn wrote:
>>>>>I was long thinking if i really should post that and some people giving me
>>>>>to not do that, but i think i must do that to feel better.
>>>>hmm... i don't buy that Daniel. I don'i understand you reasoning - as an
>>>>ex-member of the Greif team aka Nimzo clone. If you search for Vasik's post here
>>>>in the past it is rather obvious that Rybka is a very own and original program.
>>>>Also due to the rating boost, bitboards and file size Rybka does not look like a
>>>>Of course he, as well as other commercial and amatuer authors had a look into
>>>>fruit sources. Copying ideas is not cloning.
>>>Hello Gerd,
>>>i think you know that i had nothing to do with the greif sources or program. I
>>>was tester and book author and since this days i have no contact to Michael.
>>You told that story...
>>>Again, i don't say Rybka is a clone.
>>But you claim suspicions in a public forum for no reason as a concurrent
>>programmer. Vas is ready to make a commercial business with Rybka.
>>Can you imagine how much damage your post may wreak, to Vas's future business?
>You are overreacting a bit here.
>Let's put everything in perspective.
>a) Rybka is an original engine and programmed by Vasik. Just already testing
>with it and after some days i figured out, note i do not dissassemble at all as
>that's illegal i just test a few positions at it and see how it reacts, i
>figured out it is a very unique program. I was amazed that what i tried myself
>in 1999 works so well for Rybka. He sure has tuned it very well!
>An amazing achievement. Though positional weak, it kicks butt
>strategical and tactical in a way we have not seen before!
>b) Rybka is freeware engine, so until he releases 2.0, you will do near to no
>financial damage in a forum with under 200 visitors or so, from which majority
>is not gonna buy anything anyway, except for chessmaster and fritz.
>c) what rybka is doing bitboards or 32 bits doesn't matter a shit. In fact i
>feel bitboards only slows it down there at the moment as it requires a 64 bits
>executable for bitboards.
>d) gcc is indeed ugly compiler according to some, but it's pretty ok for
>32 bits code, like Diep. In fact it's faster for diep than visual c++.
>I hope you realize visual c++ 2005 compiles somehow do not work for me
>at quad opteron with server enterprise at it, when i tested it. Those exes
>do work at dual opterons and single cpu opterons though. So gcc is not a
>bad choice there.
>e) royalties made very few people rich
>f) Rybka is for sure currently strongest single cpu engine, no question
>about it. Whatever you say, that's not just taking over piece values from
>Fruit, that's a whole lot more than just that.
>g) Could you by the way explain
>to me how to use fruit mobility in a piece square table program?

Hi Vincent,

not quite sure whom you ask the questions. Me or Daniel?
Yes, i propably overreacted a bit on Daniel's claim.
And i think some clone rumors are likely to keep some vague suspicions on the
original author and may damage his reputation and business.

On your issues:
a) aggreed so far - but i learned from Mr. Hunter (iirc) that disassembling is
not illegal per se.

b) Rybka is not freeware - only the beta was free for some days on Leo's site.

c) i'am allways impressed about your feelings.
  60% speedup indeed implies bitboards are not that efficient
   1.) with 32-bit
   2.) with only 8- or better 6 32-bit gp-registers

d) what about 64-bit gcc?

e) yes - but imho Vas has some merits with such a number one engine.

f) and g) no idea - guess that are questions for Daniel.


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