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Subject: Re: Tablesbases and the 50 move rule

Author: Dann Corbit

Date: 12:30:27 12/12/05

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On December 12, 2005 at 15:24:08, Greg Simpson wrote:

>On December 12, 2005 at 14:52:05, Dann Corbit wrote:
>
>>On December 12, 2005 at 14:39:20, Álvaro Begué wrote:
>>
>>>On December 12, 2005 at 14:07:17, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 12, 2005 at 14:01:45, James Constance wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>When a tablebase says that a position is a win in more than 50 moves does it
>>>>>take into a account the 50 move rule i.e. that a piece has been taken or a pawn
>>>>>moved?
>>>>
>>>>No.  But it's trivial to count it yourself.
>>>
>>>It's not that trivial. If your database gives distance-to-mate values, it is in
>>>possible in principle that it will spend over 50 moves without making a pawn
>>>move or a capture, which results in a draw. A good database should know about
>>>distance to an irreversible winning move, and consider anything with a distance
>>>over 50 to be a draw. Then you can try to win faster if you want. I don't know
>>>if any tablebases currently available do this correctly, but in practice it will
>>>probably not matter.
>>
>>It will multiply the size of the database by a very large number.
>>You follow your projected pv to the end result.  If you do not win, but only
>>draw, you were not going to win anyway.  So there is not value at all to adding
>>the 50 move rule and a huge cost associated with it.
>>
>>e.p. is another matter and one that could have more importance, I think.
>>It's not inconceivable to let a pawn sit for almost the full game (especially a
>>king shelter pawn).
>
>But the tablebases in search are used to find trades that will lead to a winning
>endgame.  If the tablebase is showing a line that leads to a 50 move draw as a
>win, it could be chosen even though not trading down immediately could lead to a
>  win later.

I am not sure that I see the problem.
If my move counter is 30 and I see a mate in 99-30+1 by lookup, then I better
check the pv.
I guess that you could write piggy-back EGTB that have already done the math.

I would only check all the way to the finish for my mainline pv.



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