Author: Dann Corbit
Date: 22:48:45 12/12/05
Go up one level in this thread
On December 12, 2005 at 21:38:52, Uri Blass wrote:
>On December 12, 2005 at 20:56:16, Dann Corbit wrote:
>
>>On December 12, 2005 at 20:49:09, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On December 12, 2005 at 20:36:33, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 12, 2005 at 20:07:08, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On December 12, 2005 at 19:30:50, stuart taylor wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>It's very interesting, and I don't think it ever happened before, that
>>>>>>non-commercial programs came out, and became rulers over the commercial ones.
>>>>>>And not only that, but SEVERAL have now done just that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>How did it suddenly happen all at once?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Perhaps there were a few very talented programmers who all thought they were
>>>>>>going to outsmart the best, and then one released his, and then the other one
>>>>>>broke his silence, and showed he could do the same (or better), and then they
>>>>>>ALL went wild together? There are about atleast 4 programs which should make
>>>>>>stunning headlines, BUT, they all have rivals!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Or perhaps there was a good book that came out, for programming something
>>>>>>special, and all those who saw it, went for it. But alas, they had company.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>How and why now?
>>>>>
>>>>>You can blame Fabien about it.
>>>>>After he released fruit2.1 other learned.
>>>>
>>>>I doubt it (for the most part) {though it is also clear that he has advanced
>>>>state of the art computer chess programs}.
>>>>
>>>>Zappa was world champion before any Fruit code became available (IIRC).
>>>
>>>No
>>>
>>>Fruit2.1 was avialbale before zappa became world champion.
>>>
>>>>Rybka seems rather different than Fruit.
>>>>Similarly for Spike.
>>>
>>>I did not say that they are clones of fruit but only that programmers learned
>>>from fruit.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>I think that the situation is similar to what was going on in Newton's time
>>>>frame.
>>>>
>>>>Newton, Leibnitz [and Pascal to some degree] simultaneously developed calculus.
>>>>Hooke claimed also some of it to be his invention.
>>>>
>>>>But the precursors had built up to the point where *someone* was going to invent
>>>>it eventually.
>>>>
>>>>I attribute the leaps and bounds improvments to the following:
>>>>1. Lots of good, public, new ideas
>>>>2. Some good private new ideas
>>>>3. Some really good programmers getting interested in computer chess.
>>>>
>>>>Ten years from now, Fruit-level programs will be the norm and not the exception,
>>>>even for a beginner. That is because information is advancing and smart people
>>>>are adding their input. It's like a snowball rolling downhill. It can't help
>>>>but get bigger.
>>>>
>>>>Fabien is responsible for some innovations. I guess that 2/3 of the chess
>>>>programmers don't even understand them yet. At some point, it will become clear
>>>>but by then there will be new fresh ideas. Probably just as important as having
>>>>new ideas is implementing the ideas in a robust and correct manner. I think
>>>>that is the most important lesson we can glean from Fabien's code.
>>>>
>>>>P.S.
>>>>I predict he will have a very hard time writing a SMP version because of all the
>>>>global variables.
>>>
>>>I do not know that fruit has global variables.
>>>Unlike tscp that has one file of external variables fruit has many files of
>>>external variables ane I know no variable that it external to all files.
>>
>>Lots and lots of them. They are scattered about here and there. Tell your
>>compiler to make a map and you can see what they are.
>
>I do not know how to tell my compiler to make a map but the question is what is
>the definition of global variable.
>
>It is clear that variable that can be used in every file is a global variable
>but what about variable that can be used only in some files?
>
>variables in fen.h can be used only in
>board.cpp,fen.cpp,move_check.cpp move_legal.cpp protocol.cpp
>
>They cannot be used in most files
>Are there global variable or not global variables?
The visibility of global variables is not forced by the extern statements.
In fact, a program that does not even have the extern definitions can modify
those variables.
Any variable declared outside of all function bodies is either global or static.
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