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Subject: Re: Different Hydra personalities against Rybka

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 14:03:59 12/13/05

Go up one level in this thread


On December 13, 2005 at 16:40:27, Ryan B. wrote:

>On December 13, 2005 at 15:51:41, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On December 13, 2005 at 14:35:27, Ryan B. wrote:
>>
>>>On December 13, 2005 at 08:35:07, Chrilly Donninger wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 13, 2005 at 06:08:49, Ryan B. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Does the standard version of Hydra use any foward purning other than Null move?
>>>>>
>>>>>Ryan
>>>>Everybody uses nowadays additional pruning. Otherwise the big search-depths
>>>>would not be possible. Hydra uses them too. But so far not History-Pruning. Did
>>>>not work with the other pruning techniques.
>>>>The kind of pruning is a secret. One big error - publishing NullMove - is
>>>>enough. But NullMove was anyway known in the community.
>>>>
>>>>Chrilly
>>>
>>>I suspected that most strong programs use additional pruning.  I asked because I
>>>read a claim by Vincent that Deip and Zappa only use Nullmove for pruning.
>>>
>>>Ryan
>>
>>Diep world champs 2005 version used history pruning. Normally it runs without
>>pruning. dutch champs it used no pruning other than nullmove.
>>
>>Zappa uses only nullmove. The world champs version of zappa was just nullmove.
>>I'm not sure whether he's gonna use pruning in future, you'll have to ask
>>himself.
>>
>>Diep is not going to use history pruning *ever again*. Last plies pruning or
>>something else i might retry however.
>>
>>Did do a lot of tries there. Point is, when i play a 100 games or so and the
>>statistics indicate it scores me less points, then i kick out something.
>>
>>That happened to history pruning too. The tournaments we play, we play at quads
>>or something big, that means that testing a 100 games is not easy, as
>>in my case i simulate it with 180 0 games at a dual k7, each program its own
>>dual k7.
>>
>>Vincent
>
>
>Interesting, in my experience other than null move most pruning methods are only
>good at blitz time control or on slow hardware so I am not surprised that Diep
>only uses null move as I doubt you are interested in blitz results.

history pruning is not good for fruit only at blitz.

I believe that lower values than 70 are better at long time control but I
believe that it is also productive at long time control.

  One that I
>think is only a small improvement but helps at all time controls for me is
>extended razoring with researches when value is over alpha.  A more complicated
>algorithm for doing researches may help but I have not found it yet.
>
>Ryan

In my experience history based pruning is one of the most logical pruning
because it is based on statistics.

If a move never failed high and failed law a lot of times then it is logical to
prune it.

Note that to be more correct it is the only reduction that I use.

I have pruning based on evaluation and other factors that I use in the last
plies(I do not give exact details).

History based pruning usually only save me 1/2-1 plies

Uri



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