Author: Hristo
Date: 15:31:36 03/26/99
Go up one level in this thread
On March 26, 1999 at 16:35:04, KarinsDad wrote: >On March 26, 1999 at 16:00:44, Bruce Moreland wrote: > >>Some people don't want to play computers because they have a computer at home >>and would play it if they wanted to play a computer. >> >>Some would like to socialize with an opponent, but wouldn't like to socialize >>with an operator, and the act of playing the game is what I'm referring to, not >>necessarily the chatting after or even during. >> >>Some don't want to play because they don't like the combination of attributes >>that comprise computer strength. If you play a human you can play speculatively >>and bluff. You can't do this as easily against a computer. >> >>The computer won't adapt to you at a high level as well as a human will, and a >>computer won't do blunt and direct things that perhaps you could learn from, >>instead it will play from move to move. >> >>I used to play against computers a lot, and the quality of the experience was >>very different from play against a human. >> >>I think it is perfectly fine for people to expect to know whether their opponent >>is a computer or a human. >> >>Regardless, this is the rule, it will never be changed no matter what we say >>here, and a great many people have very sincere opinions that the rule be >>enforced. >> >>bruce > >Bruce, > >What if (and this is just speculation) someone wrote a program where it was >extremely difficult to tell if it was human or if it was a program? The program >could be configured to play at 1600 or 2600 and it could do such an superb job >that nobody could tell the difference. > >With the exception of your socializing comment (which might be handled by a >knowledgeable operator and good analysis features of the program), such a >program would not be contrained to the limitations that you effectively >mentioned on today's current programs (which are very true today). It may not be >commercially available, so you couldn't play it at home, it would have different >attributes than current programs, and it's ability to adapt would be extremely >human-like. > >Granted, today this is just speculation. But what if? > >Should such a program be segregated? Do people have a right to know that they >are playing it? If so, why? Would there be any harm in people NOT knowing >exactly who their opponent was in such a case (like they do not know based on >the handles today)? > >BTW, from a pragmatic point of view, I agree with all of the points that you >made. I'm trying to explore a little the realm of "what if". > >KarinsDad :) You and Bruce make a bunch of interesting points ... :) I'd like to concentrate on just a few of your questions(speculations). I beleive people and computers have the right to know who is their opponent! (Why? Because it is a matter of personal freedom to acquire knowledge, which can aid ones decision.) However nobody should have the means to enforce this data acquisition !!! (keep in mind the circumstances we are talking about) This might seem strange. "A" can ask "B" if "B" is a computer, a human, or a donkey. "B" has the right to answer, to refuse to answer, to lie. "A" can use the acquired knowledge and decide to play a game or not. if "A" decides to play a game, "A" shouldn't go on a "witch-hunt" in case, the result of the game was unsatisfactory. .... :) In real tournaments we play people we hardly know. Most of the time(in a real tournament) I have no idea what my oppponent would do, and I don't mean on the chess board(kicking the table, playing with the wrist watch, clearing his/her throat, .... endless). Anybody knows that among chess players are some of the strangest, bizare, and funny people. :))) I should know, I'm one of them ... :)))) But there was that one instance that nothing could have ever prepared me for. I was in Bulagria playing a Russian guy. He was an old dude :))) ... After we entered the "dragon" I played a move, I had prepared at home and felt very good about it. Everything was going my way ... but there he was right infront of me, absolutely silent, so I looked at him. Dear folks that was the end of it ... this guy had his lower lip pulled over his nose (!!!) and he was playing with his teeth ... needless to say I lost rather quickly. Did I have the right to know that he might do this? Sure! Did I ever ask anybody if they are going to pull a trick on me? No! Did I start using my own tricks? Sure! cheers to all. Hristo
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