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Subject: Re: The Relation between Search and chess-style and the price of eggs.

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 07:46:30 12/15/05

Go up one level in this thread


On December 15, 2005 at 04:45:52, Vincent Lejeune wrote:

>On December 15, 2005 at 03:16:00, Chrilly Donninger wrote:
>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Maybe Rybka is a Nimzo clone :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>No, maybe not.   :)
>>>
>>>More interesting is - will HYDRA become a RYBKA clone?  :)
>>>
>>One of the most important inventions in Computer chess was the Autoplayer.
>>People have before played against other programms, but this was cumbersome.
>>Since then the development is a (co-)evolution. The programmers react on the
>>ideas of others. It is some sort of silent conversation. E.g. when Shredder came
>>with his impressive search depths, the other programmers had to react too. One
>>can not sit there and watch how Shreddere outsearches one ones creation. One
>>also knows: There is stil a lot of potential in pruing. After all it works in
>>Shredder.
>>The same will happen with Rybka. It has the advantage of being a new species
>>which is somewhat different to the current population. But the ecosystem will
>>react on Rybka. Thats the way evolution works.
>>
>>A concrete Hydra-example: In the Match Topalov-Hydra, Bilbao 2004, Hydra got a
>>passed pawn on d3 and was very happy about the position. Actually the idea was
>>quite bad and we almost lost the game. So we reduced the value of central-passed
>>pawns in the Middlegame. Rybka does not know about this and likes to push his
>>d/e pawn. Hydra does not care, because it was told to avoid the
>>"Topalovmatch-pawn-push" (it works always in both directions). I have increased
>>the bonus now again slightly to avoid this problem against Rybka. And I will
>>probably kick myself in the ass, if Hydra makes against a top GM the next time
>>the same stupid move like in Bilbao.
>>
>>Chrilly
>
>[d]1n1q1rk1/r3bppp/bp2p3/p1p1P3/3p2QP/2P1P1B1/PPBN1PP1/R3K2R b KQ h3 0 15
>
>The eternal question, for humans too, is a pass pawn weak or strong ?
>
>Here it seems quite simple after the seeing the Topalov moves. Humans ask : "How
>black can protect this pawn ?" and then "How white can prevent black to play the
>moves helping to protect the pawn ?"
>
>It's strange hydra didn't found the best line here : all tries to protect the
>pawn are stopped !

Thanks for the game
Chrilly Donninger is not correct when he claims that Rybka likes to push the d
pawn.
Rybka does not like 15...d3 at level that is not blitz.

Rybka after 25 minutes of search

Veselin Topalov - Hydra, Man vs Machine 120'/40+60' 2004
[D]1n1q1rk1/r3bppp/bp2p3/p1p1P3/3p2QP/2P1P1B1/PPBN1PP1/R3K2R b KQ h3 0 1

Analysis by Rybka 1.0 Beta 32-bit:

15...d3
  ³  (-0.44)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
15...d3
  ³  (-0.32)   Depth: 4   00:00:00
15...d3 16.Bb3
  ³  (-0.40)   Depth: 5   00:00:00
15...d3 16.Bb3 Nc6
  ³  (-0.32)   Depth: 6   00:00:00  7kN
15...d3 16.Bb3 Nc6 17.0-0-0
  ³  (-0.32)   Depth: 7   00:00:00  16kN
15...d3 16.Bb3 Nc6 17.0-0-0 Qc7
  ³  (-0.35)   Depth: 8   00:00:00  43kN
15...d3 16.Bb3 Nc6 17.h5 Qc7 18.Nf3
  ³  (-0.34)   Depth: 9   00:00:01  114kN
15...d3 16.Bb3 Nc6 17.h5 Qc7 18.Nf3 h6
  ³  (-0.37)   Depth: 10   00:00:02  219kN
15...d3 16.Bb3 Nd7 17.h5 h6 18.0-0 Qc7 19.Qe4
  ³  (-0.35)   Depth: 11   00:00:06  503kN
15...d3 16.Bb3 Qc7 17.h5 Nd7 18.h6 g6 19.Qf4 a4
  ³  (-0.35)   Depth: 12   00:00:17  1412kN
15...d3 16.Bd1 Nc6 17.Bf3 Qc7 18.Qf4 Rd8 19.0-0 a4 20.Rad1
  ³  (-0.35)   Depth: 13   00:00:46  3565kN
15...d3 16.Bd1 Qc7 17.Bf3 Nd7 18.Nc4 Bxc4 19.Qxc4 Nxe5 20.Bxe5
  =  (-0.25)   Depth: 14   00:01:29  6905kN
15...Rd7 16.0-0-0 d3 17.Bb1 Nc6 18.h5 h6 19.a3 Qc7 20.Nc4
  ³  (-0.50)   Depth: 14   00:03:21  14530kN
15...Rd7 16.0-0-0 d3 17.Bb1 Nc6 18.h5 h6 19.Ne4 c4 20.Bf4
  ³  (-0.45)   Depth: 15   00:04:00  17235kN
15...Rd7 16.0-0-0 d3 17.Bb1 Nc6 18.Ne4 h6 19.Bf4 Kh7 20.Qf3
  ³  (-0.48)   Depth: 16   00:06:16  26480kN
15...Rd7 16.0-0-0 d3 17.Bb1 Nc6 18.h5 h6 19.Qe4 Bb7 20.Qc4
  ³  (-0.43)   Depth: 17   00:10:22  43511kN

(,  15.12.2005)



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