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Subject: Re: Secrets of Rybka and Fruit from my point of view

Author: Stuart Cracraft

Date: 22:49:44 12/15/05

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On December 15, 2005 at 21:14:17, Ryan B. wrote:

>On December 15, 2005 at 19:57:45, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On December 15, 2005 at 19:38:51, Stuart Cracraft wrote:
>>
>>>On December 15, 2005 at 19:18:37, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>I also agree and I never underestimated fruit's evaluation.
>>>>It is possible that the main reason for it's superior evaluation is the idea of
>>>>average between opening and endgame but it is fact that it has a superior
>>>>evaluation.
>>>
>>>Really? Just the line from fruit:eval.c:
>>>
>>>  eval = ((opening * (256 - phase)) + (endgame * phase)) / 256;
>>>
>>>I find that VERY hard to believe. That concept has been around a
>>>very long-time.
>>
>>I do not read much source code of free programs so I do not know but I wonder
>>if free source code programs before fruit use that idea and have for every term
>>endgame evaluation and opening evaluation.
>>
>>I use it for some things and I learned the idea from fruit but most of my
>>evaluation does not use that idea and I may rewrite the evaluation and test.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>You must propose something better.
>>>
>>>Superior evaluation?
>>>
>>>That code is trivially small.
>>>
>>>So, small is beautiful?
>>
>>bigger has the potential to be better but it is not always better.
>>I believe that Rybka's evaluation is even better than fruit's evaluation but
>>fruit's evaluation is better than the evaluation of most top programs including
>>Shredder9.
>>
>>Uri
>
>
>A strong point of Fruits eval is that it is more accurate than it is deep.  Many
>people think they will have a better eval by having more knowledge but end of
>having bad chess knowledge that does not work well this other knowledge in the
>eval.
>
>Ryan

Perhaps some kind soul could just take the Fruit 2.1 eval and implement
it in their program and tell us the difference in Arena-play for the two
of them in a round-robin with many others.

Any takers?



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