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Subject: Re: Orthodox human victory vs. Rybka

Author: Drexel,Michael

Date: 22:33:30 12/21/05

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On December 21, 2005 at 23:13:59, Vladimir Xern wrote:

>On December 21, 2005 at 19:08:59, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>
>>On December 21, 2005 at 12:47:14, Vladimir Xern wrote:
>>
>>>On December 21, 2005 at 11:36:22, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>>>
>>>>This game can hardly count as "orthodox" victory.
>>>>The win is solely based on very weak opening play by Rybka.
>>>
>>>Er, really? You mean to say that one side has to play worse than the other for
>>>it to lose?
>>
>>No, I mean to say exactly what I wrote.
>
>And what you wrote was an excuse for why my win "didn't count" so to speak. Read
>what you wrote again, then read what I wrote. :)

No, apparently I wrote "didn't count as orthodox opening".
I'm sorry, this is not the same.

>>And here I thought that's how every chess game was decided. And that
>>>since Rybka played a particular part of the game worse and lost, it still
>>>"doesn't count" as a legitimate win?
>>
>>Why not. Be happy with your legitimate win. :)
>
>Thanks, but nothing to be too happy over apparently.

It is for sure nothing to be proud of, unless you are a below 2000 rated player.
Your opponent wasted 2 tempi in an already passive position:

Bf8-b4+,Bb4-e7 is a tempo loss since c3 is a useful move.
Be7-h4+,Bh4-e7 is also a tempo loss.


>>Rybka Beta is not what you can call a well-rounded program yet. It plays the
>>opening like a typical amateur engine (i.e. self-blockade of c-pawn or useless
>>Bishop checks on b4,b5) and has a serious lack of endgame knowledge.
>>
>>Well damn, I guess I'm back to the drawing
>>>board since winning apparently isn't good enough.
>>>>Any good book has 1.e4 e6 2.e5 d6. Try to beat Rybka from there...
>>>
>>>If Rybka played anything that thoughtful, I wouldn't have gone for the Steinitz
>>>variation in the first place, would I have?
>>
>>Getting the engine out of book on purpose at move two is Anti-Computer chess.
>>There is nothing wrong with it but 1.e4 e6 2.e5 Sc6 3.d4 Bb4+? is not something
>>you can call "orthodox line" by any means.
>
>Yes, but not "anti-chess" which all the pundits were screaming about. And I
>can't help it Rybka played unorthodoxly, can I? I guess you people won't be
>satisfied until someone outplays Rybka in some ultra-theoretical Najdorf, and if
>that's the case, you're too far gone to reason with. :)
>>>>Download the Man-Machine database from Tony Hedlunds site and search for a
>>>>machine who played 1...e6 in an important man-machine game.
>>>>You won't find many...
>>>
>>>Why? Oh, because you think the French is a poor defence for computers. Then you
>>>should be happy that I gave your claims some validity after all. :)
>>
>>>Facts: the game is an offhand, informal blitz game I played on a Wednesday
>>>morning while eating some breakfast cereal to provide a change of pace from
>>>anti-chess. All you armchair dissenters should lighten up on the arrogance.
>>>You're rated what, around 2300 FIDE?
>>
>>I wonder what my rating has to do with the subject.
>
>Read it again, it'll make sense.

Not necessary

 If German is your first language (and English
>second), I'd be happy to explain my reasoning more clearly.

My first language is certainly German, otherwise my grammar and spelling
wouldn't be so bad...

Michael

>>You should be on our side expending a
>>>little elbow grease. :)
>>
>>>Oh, and Merry Christmas.
>>
>>Thanks, likewise
>>
>
>Thanks.
>
>-Vlad



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