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Subject: Re: So why *does* Fritz beat Crafty?

Author: Eugene Nalimov

Date: 12:46:53 03/28/99

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On March 28, 1999 at 09:15:11, James T. Walker wrote:

>On March 27, 1999 at 15:43:42, Eugene Nalimov wrote:
>
>>On March 27, 1999 at 12:45:05, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>On March 27, 1999 at 03:55:25, blass uri wrote:
>>>
>>>>It is not fair because part of the effort in doing the program crafty is by
>>>>doing it a parallel machine.
>>>>I believe that Bob could do in the same time a better program if he did not
>>>>waste time for doing a SMP program.
>>>
>>>If someone wants to compare Crafty and Fritz I think it would be fair to compare
>>>them on uniform high-end (single-processor) hardware, since they are both
>>>designed to work on that hardware.
>>>
>>>If one of them would only run on a 286, I don't think it would be fair to make
>>>them both run on a 286.
>>>
>>>But multiprocessor machines are still a super- high-end thing so it's probably
>>>not fair to say:  Here is the machine, it has 4 processors, feel free to use
>>>them in this match.  Oh, what did you say Fritz, you can't use 4 processors, you
>>>can only use one?  Well, that's too bad for you.  You might as well put them
>>>both on an Alpha and expect Fritz to use an emulator.
>>>
>>>In a few years, maybe, because everyone will have a multiprocessor machine, but
>>>of course everyone will be multiprocessor then.
>>>
>>>Bob's put time in being SMP, sure, but I think he supports single-processor
>>>machines and runs well on them.
>>>
>>>bruce
>>
>>Bob spent his time working on SMP. Also, he deliberatly lost some
>>performance by using C instead of assembly.
>>
>>Author of Fritz decided not to include SMP code, as well as write
>>his program on assembly to squize last pieces of performance.
>>
>>By using single-CPU x86-compatible machine you favor Fritz - he will
>>be running on the best possible platform.
>>
>>Maybe it's better to put some dollar limit - e.g. "on a machines
>>that cost not more than $7,500".
>>
>>Eugene
>
>Maybe it's better to say "For the average user".  The average person does not
>have a $7500 machine.  For the average user ($2000 PC or less) Crafty comes up
>way short of Fritz and Junior and the other top programs made for PC's.  So for
>comparable speed machines, Crafty gets beat more often than not.  If you want to
>put Crafty on a 4 processor machine  which increases it's speed by a factor of
>say 3.5 then give Fritz a comparable speed increase and it will still come out
>on top.  This is not a put down of Crafty.  I have often wondered the same thing
>about why Crafty gets beat by the top programs when Crafty seems to have all the
>modern techniques of chess programming.  The question begs for an answer not to
>put down Crafty but to search for weakness which can be overcome.  I believe
>this will take some analysis by master chess players which I am not.  I believe
>this question was given in the sense of trying to find an answer which will
>eventually make Crafty a better program.  Everyone appreciates the fact that
>Crafty is portable to different platforms because of the C language.  This has
>to cost some rating points but I don't believe it accounts for the majority of
>the rating difference between Crafty and the top programs.
>Jim Walker

I was not the first who started the talk about "top of the line
computer". I just pointed that for the same money you can buy
computer that will be much more 'Crafty-friendly'.

If you want to go to more reasonable price range - Ok.
Here is a surprise, too - computer that will give Crafty
advantage in computing power over Fritz can be *cheaper* than
top of the line 'Fritz-friendly' computer in the same price
range. For example, dual PII/350 cost less than PII/450;
dual PII/400 cost less than PIII/500. Also, Crafty needs
less memory than Fritz for its' hashes.

Eugene



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