Author: Sune Larsson
Date: 02:30:12 12/28/05
Go up one level in this thread
On December 28, 2005 at 03:37:40, Dann Corbit wrote: >On December 28, 2005 at 03:27:37, Sune Larsson wrote: > >>On December 27, 2005 at 23:02:42, Dann Corbit wrote: >> >>>sune-eg.epd: >>>8/1ppr1kp1/p1p4p/8/8/5P2/PPP1RKPP/8 w - - 0 1 >>>8/1pk3pp/p7/3p1p2/3K4/6P1/PP2PP1P/8 b - - 0 1 >>>8/4k3/r4pp1/pR6/P4KP1/5P2/8/8 w - - 0 1 >>>8/p1p1k3/1p1p2p1/3Pq2p/2P1P3/1P3QPK/P7/8 w - - 0 1 >>>8/p3ppk1/1p4pp/3nN3/6PP/1P3P2/P3PK2/8 w - - 0 1 >>>7k/pp4pp/2n5/8/8/P7/1P4PP/2K1B3 b - - 0 1 >>>8/8/p4Bp1/1pPb2P1/1P2kp2/P7/5K2/8 w - - 0 1 >>>8/4k3/p1B4p/2K5/1P4bP/8/8/8 b - - 0 1 >>>3R4/1p6/2b5/2P1k2p/p3p2P/P6r/1P2KB2/8 b - - 0 1 >>>8/5b2/1k2p1p1/2NpP1P1/1K1P4/8/8/8 w - - 0 1 >>>8/5p1k/r5pp/P7/3R3P/6P1/5PK1/8 w - - 0 1 >>>4b3/5k2/4p1p1/3pP2p/2pP1P1P/2P5/6N1/2K5 w - - 0 1 >>>8/1p1b2k1/p1p1p1p1/2P1P2p/1P3P1P/P2B4/5K2/8 w - - 0 1 >>>6k1/2p3np/1p1p2p1/3P4/1PPK1R2/6PB/7P/4r3 w - - 0 1 >>>1n6/4k2p/p3ppp1/1pPp4/3P1PP1/3NP3/P3K2P/8 w - - 0 1 >>>3r4/7p/Rp4k1/5p2/4p3/2P5/PP3P1P/5K2 b - - 0 1 >>>8/4k3/1p2b1pp/p1p1p3/P1P1P3/1P3P1P/5KB1/8 b - - 0 37 >>>2r5/1p1k1p2/p2p2p1/P1PPnp1p/1P1K1N1P/5P2/4R1P1/8 w - - 0 1 >>>8/6b1/4k2p/p1p1p1p1/2P1K1P1/PP3N1P/8/8 w - - 0 1 >>>2r3k1/4pp1p/3p2p1/p2R4/1r6/1P4P1/P3PP1P/R5K1 b - - 0 1 >>> >>>On 2.2 GHz AMD Athlon, at 3 minutes per position, here are the results: >>> >>> Fruit2.2.1 Shredder9UCI Rybka-v1.B32 Ktulu_75 YacePadrbrn Bestia-090 >>> 1) Kf2-e3 1) f3-f4 1) f3-f4 1) f3-f4 1) f3-f4 1) f3-f4 >>> 2).. Kc7-d6 2).. Kc7-d6 2).. Kc7-d6 2).. Kc7-d6 2) .. Kc7-d6 2) .. Kc7-d6 >>> 3) g4-g5 3) Rb5-d5 3) g4-g5 3) Rb5-d5 3) g4-g5 3) Rb5-d5 >>> 4) Qf3-f4 4) Qf3-e2 4) g3-g4 4) Qf3-f4 4) Qf3-e2 4) Qf3-e3 >>> 5) Ne5-c6 5) e2-e3 5) Ne5-c6 5) Ne5-c6 5) Ne5-c6 5) Ne5-c6 >>> 6).. Kh8-g8 6).. Kh8-g8 6).. Kh8-g8 6).. Kh8-g8 6) .. g7-g6 6) .. Kh8-g8 >>> 7) Bf6-c3 7) Bf6-e7 7) Bf6-c3 7) Kf2-e2 7) Bf6-c3 7) Bf6-c3 >>> 8).. Bg4-c8 8).. Bg4-e2 8).. Ke7-d8 8).. Bg4-c8 8) .. Ke7-f6 8) .. Ke7-f6 >>> 9).. Ke5-f5 9).. Bc6-d5 9).. Bc6-d5 9).. Bc6-d5 9) .. Bc6-d5 9) .. Bc6-b5 >>>10) Nc5-d3 10) Nc5-a4 10) Kb4-b3 10) Kb4-c3 10) Nc5-a4 10) Nc5-a4 >>>11) Rd4-d5 11) Rd4-d5 11) Rd4-d5 11) Rd4-d5 11) Rd4-d5 11) Rd4-d5 >>>12) Ng2-e1 12) Ng2-e1 12) Ng2-e1 12) Kc1-d2 12) Kc1-d2 12) Kc1-d2 >>>13) Kf2-e2 13) Kf2-e3 13) Kf2-e3 13) Kf2-e3 13) Kf2-e3 13) Kf2-e3 >>>14) Rf4-f2 14) Kd4-d3 14) Rf4-f6 14) Rf4-f2 14) Rf4-f6 14) Bh3-d7 >>>15) f4-f5 15) f4-f5 15) f4-f5 15) f4-f5 15) f4-f5 15) f4-f5 >>>16).. Rd8-b8 16).. Rd8-b8 16).. Rd8-b8 16).. Rd8-b8 16).. Rd8-b8 16).. Rd8-b8 >>>17).. b6-b5 17).. b6-b5 17).. b6-b5 17).. b6-b5 17).. b6-b5 17).. Ke7-f6 >>>18) Re2xe5 18) Nf4-h3 18) Re2-e3 18) Re2-e1 18) Nf4-h3 18) Re2-e3 >>>19) Nf3-e1 19) Nf3-h2 19) Nf3-e1 19) Nf3-e1 19) Nf3-e1 19) Nf3-e1 >>>20).. a5-a4 20).. a5-a4 20).. a5-a4 20).. a5-a4 20).. a5-a4 20).. a5-a4 >>>12/27/2005 2:37:12 PM, Total time: 1:02:06 AM Rated time: 1:00:00 = 3600 Seconds >>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Nice! Hopefully there will pop up some testers that will find games in 40/40 - >> from these positions - interesting. I'm at work right now - but from memory >> >> 11) Rd4-d5? is bad - the rook belongs behind the pawn. >> 16)..Rd8-b8? is too passive. This is about activity in rook ending. >> 18)..Re2xe5! (Fruit!) is an excellent move. >> >> Furthermore - if 15) f4-f5 is the old game with Kn+pawns vs Kn+pawns - then >> this position just might be too easy. I will have a look when I have a chess >> board in front of me... >> >> /S > >There looks to be a couple of "solution" moves in the set, so some of the >positions may not be equal. Now, I recognize those draws where the engine says >+177, +177, +177 ply after ply. But where there is a sudden change for the >better and it keeps improving, makes it seem that the position is not balanced. > >For instance, these two: >15) 0 1 > Avoid move: > Best move (Rybka v1.0 Beta.w32): f4-f5 > Not found in: 30:00 > 3 00:01 242 6.044 +0.30 g4g5 > 4 00:01 535 10.741 +0.24 g4g5 > 4 00:01 1.608 23.191 +0.27 f4f5 > 5 00:01 2.148 21.777 +0.21 f4f5 g6g5 > 6 00:01 3.365 31.042 +0.18 f4f5 g6g5 f5xe6 > 7 00:01 6.635 48.186 +0.12 f4f5 g6g5 f5xe6 Nb8c6 > 7 00:01 8.690 52.038 +0.14 Nd3b4 a6a5 Nb4d3 Nb8c6 > 8 00:01 13.100 60.698 +0.11 Nd3b4 a6a5 Nb4d3 Nb8c6 Ke2f3 > 9 00:01 26.426 79.355 +0.06 Nd3b4 a6a5 Nb4d3 Nb8c6 g4g5 b5b4 > 9 00:01 36.119 89.989 +0.18 g4g5 Nb8c6 a2a3 f6f5 Ke2d2 Ke7d7 > 10 00:01 48.868 99.881 +0.15 g4g5 Nb8c6 a2a3 f6f5 Nd3b4 Nc6xb4 a3xb4 >Ke7d7 > 11 00:02 93.817 115.467 +0.10 g4g5 Nb8c6 a2a3 f6f5 Nd3b4 Nc6xb4 a3xb4 >Ke7d7 h2h3 > 12 00:02 173.470 123.959 +0.13 g4g5 Nb8c6 a2a3 f6f5 Nd3b4 Nc6xb4 a3xb4 >Ke7d7 Ke2d3 Kd7c7 > 13 00:03 286.259 137.361 +0.12 g4g5 Nb8c6 a2a3 f6f5 Nd3b4 Nc6xb4 a3xb4 >Ke7d7 Ke2d3 Kd7c7 > 14 00:04 519.703 148.818 +0.12 g4g5 Nb8c6 a2a3 f6f5 Nd3b4 Nc6xb4 a3xb4 >Ke7d7 Ke2d3 Kd7c7 > 15 00:08 1.089.764 162.907 +0.10 g4g5 Nb8c6 a2a3 f6f5 Nd3b4 Nc6xb4 a3xb4 >Ke7d7 Ke2d3 Kd7c7 > 15 00:14 2.034.141 169.511 +0.11 a2a3 a6a5 g4g5 Nb8c6 Ke2d2 f6f5 Kd2c3 >Ke7d8 Nd3e1 Kd8d7 > 16 00:21 3.308.253 174.118 +0.14 a2a3 f6f5 g4xf5 e6xf5 Nd3e5 Ke7d8 h2h4 >Kd8c7 Ne5f3 Nb8c6 > 17 00:30 4.967.461 177.409 +0.10 a2a3 a6a5 g4g5 Nb8c6 Ke2d2 f6f5 Kd2c3 >Ke7d8 Nd3e1 Kd8d7 > 17 00:40 6.507.436 171.248 +0.16 f4f5 g6g5 Nd3b4 a6a5 Nb4c2 e6xf5 g4xf5 >Ke7d7 e3e4 d5xe4 > 18 00:51 8.160.114 166.532 +0.20 f4f5 g6g5 Nd3b4 a6a5 c5c6 Ke7d6 f5xe6 >Nb8xc6 Nb4xc6 Kd6xc6 > 19 01:14 11.616.726 161.343 +0.60 f4f5 g6g5 Nd3b4 a6a5 c5c6 Ke7d6 f5xe6 >Nb8xc6 Nb4xc6 Kd6xc6 > 20 01:40 15.427.791 160.706 +0.62 f4f5 g6g5 Nd3b4 a6a5 c5c6 Ke7d6 f5xe6 >Nb8xc6 Nb4xc6 Kd6xc6 > 21 02:11 20.251.876 160.729 +0.60 f4f5 g6g5 Nd3b4 a6a5 c5c6 Ke7d6 f5xe6 >Nb8xc6 Nb4xc6 Kd6xc6 > 22 03:21 30.421.534 156.007 +0.66 f4f5 g6g5 Nd3b4 a6a5 c5c6 Ke7d6 f5xe6 >Nb8xc6 Nb4xc6 Kd6xc6 > 23 04:47 43.473.317 155.818 +0.64 f4f5 g6g5 Nd3b4 a6a5 c5c6 Ke7d6 f5xe6 >Nb8xc6 Nb4xc6 Kd6xc6 > 24 09:00 77.976.755 148.244 +0.85 f4f5 g6g5 Nd3b4 a6a5 c5c6 Ke7d6 f5xe6 >Nb8xc6 Nb4xc6 Kd6xc6 > 25 27:21 229.653.704 143.443 +1.36 f4f5 g6g5 Nd3b4 a6a5 c5c6 Ke7d6 f5xe6 >Nb8xc6 Nb4xc6 Kd6xc6 > 12/27/2005 8:25:08 PM, Time for this analysis: 00:30:01, Rated time: 7:30:00 > >17) 0 37 > Avoid move: > Best move (Rybka v1.0 Beta.w32): b6-b5 > Not found in: 30:00 > 3 00:01 128 131.072 +0.50 Ke7d6 > 4 00:01 235 240.640 +0.56 Ke7d6 > 5 00:01 684 700.416 +0.48 Ke7d6 Kf2e3 > 6 00:01 2.048 99.864 +0.32 Ke7d6 h3h4 Be6d7 > 6 00:01 3.002 146.383 +0.47 Ke7f6 Kf2e3 h6h5 > 6 00:01 3.735 123.375 +0.54 h6h5 Kf2e3 g6g5 > 7 00:01 4.766 119.033 +0.45 h6h5 Kf2e3 g6g5 Bg2f1 > 7 00:01 6.451 129.525 +0.50 g6g5 Kf2e3 Be6d7 Bg2f1 > 8 00:01 11.557 130.048 +0.51 g6g5 Kf2e2 Ke7d6 Ke2e3 h6h5 > 9 00:01 14.678 135.407 +0.50 g6g5 Kf2e2 Ke7d6 Ke2e3 Be6c8 Bg2f1 > 10 00:01 21.625 146.649 +0.51 g6g5 Kf2e2 Ke7d6 Ke2e3 Be6c8 Ke3d2 >Bc8d7 Kd2d3 > 11 00:01 62.308 154.862 +0.32 g6g5 Kf2g3 Be6d7 h3h4 Ke7f6 Bg2h3 >g5xh4+ Kg3xh4 Bd7xh3 Kh4xh3 > 12 00:02 152.662 160.829 +0.34 g6g5 Kf2g3 Be6d7 h3h4 Ke7f6 Bg2f1 >g5xh4+ Kg3xh4 Kf6g6 Bf1h3 > 13 00:02 215.901 164.618 +0.46 g6g5 Kf2g3 Ke7f7 h3h4 Kf7f6 Bg2f1 Kf6g6 >Bf1g2 Kg6h5 h4xg5 > 14 00:03 274.206 167.734 +0.44 g6g5 Kf2g3 Ke7f7 h3h4 Kf7f6 Bg2f1 Be6d7 >Bf1g2 Bd7c8 Bg2f1 > 15 00:04 479.190 180.069 +0.48 g6g5 Kf2g3 Ke7f7 Bg2f1 Kf7g6 Bf1g2 >Be6d7 Bg2f1 Bd7c6 h3h4 > 16 00:04 596.673 183.702 +0.47 g6g5 Kf2g3 Ke7f7 Bg2f1 Kf7g6 Bf1g2 >Be6d7 Bg2f1 Bd7c6 Bf1g2 > 17 00:06 888.364 182.009 +0.46 g6g5 Kf2g3 Ke7f7 Bg2f1 Kf7g6 Bf1g2 >Be6d7 Bg2f1 Bd7e8 Bf1g2 > 18 00:09 1.283.614 173.819 +0.46 g6g5 Kf2g3 Ke7f7 Bg2f1 Kf7g6 Bf1g2 >Be6d7 Bg2f1 Bd7e8 Bf1g2 > 19 00:12 1.993.658 199.365 +0.46 g6g5 Kf2g3 Ke7f7 Bg2f1 Kf7g6 Bf1g2 >Be6d7 Bg2f1 Bd7e8 Bf1g2 > 20 00:17 2.841.630 189.442 +0.46 g6g5 Kf2g3 Ke7f7 Bg2f1 Kf7g6 Bf1g2 >Be6d7 Bg2f1 Bd7e8 Bf1g2 > 21 00:30 5.260.979 187.892 +0.46 g6g5 Kf2g3 Ke7f7 Bg2f1 Kf7g6 Bf1g2 >Be6d7 Bg2f1 Bd7e8 Bf1g2 > 21 05:09 41.213.342 137.377 +2.28 b6b5 c4xb5 Ke7d6 Kf2e3 Be6xb3 f3f4 >e5xf4+ Ke3xf4 Bb3xa4 b5b6 > 22 06:01 49.114.240 139.926 +2.41 b6b5 c4xb5 Ke7d6 Kf2e3 Be6xb3 f3f4 >e5xf4+ Ke3xf4 Bb3xa4 b5b6 > 23 07:14 60.607.006 143.278 +2.42 b6b5 c4xb5 Ke7d6 b5b6 Kd6c6 Bg2f1 >Be6xb3 Bf1b5+ Kc6xb6 h3h4 > 24 10:46 86.054.351 136.811 +2.57 b6b5 c4xb5 Ke7d6 b5b6 Kd6c6 Bg2f1 >Be6xb3 Bf1b5+ Kc6xb6 h3h4 > 25 21:30 153.031.859 121.646 +2.84 b6b5 c4xb5 Ke7d6 b5b6 Kd6c6 Bg2f1 >Be6xb3 Bf1b5+ Kc6xb6 Kf2e3 > 12/27/2005 9:25:12 PM, Time for this analysis: 00:30:01, Rated time: 8:30:00 > > >It would seem odd to have a tournament based on positions that are won for one >side or the other. > >Some of the others are apparent draws that give engines a wood-counting >headache. The first 9 are rather balanced positions (Nunn) - the added 11 are either a test in bringing home the full point (like the 3 positions with "good knight vs "bad bishop", won rook ending, won bishop ending)or saving half a point in an otherwise lost ending - like the RookE where several engines chose Rb8? - that position is about the need for activity in rook ending. The point is not finding a solution move - but showing in games that the points can be brought home. From memory I don't recall more than one position that is a draw with best play - out of the last 11 that is. /S
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