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Subject: Re: sound sac?

Author: John Merlino

Date: 10:25:40 12/31/05

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On December 31, 2005 at 06:36:25, George Tsavdaris wrote:

>On December 30, 2005 at 22:26:15, Zappa wrote:
>
>>On December 30, 2005 at 20:14:04, George Tsavdaris wrote:
>>
>>>On December 30, 2005 at 19:59:30, Will Singleton wrote:
>>>
>>>>Some computer just played this move against amateur on ICC, worked, but I wonder
>>>>if it's really sound.
>>>>
>>>>r3kb1r/pp3ppp/2p5/q3n1B1/3pN3/5Q1P/PPP2PP1/R4RK1 w kq - bm Nf6+?
>>>
>>>A quick/small analysis gives that all variations result in a white win but one
>>>leads to a white being better but Q+2P Vs 2R not very easy....:
>>>
>>>1. Nf6+ gxf6 2. Qxf6 Kd7 3. Rad1 Bg7 (3... Re8 4. Rxd4+ Kc8 5. Qxh8 Nf3+ 6.
>>>gxf3 Qxg5+ 7. Rg4 Qd5 8. Qd4 $18) (3... Rg8 4. Rxd4+ Kc7 5. Bf4 Kb6 6. Bxe5 Re8
>>>7. Bg3 Rg7 8. Rfd1 Rxg3 9. fxg3 Bc5 10. R1d3 $18) 4. Rxd4+ Kc7 5. Qe7+ Kb8 6.
>>>Rfd1 Nf3+ 7. gxf3 Bxd4 8. Rxd4 Rg8 9. Kh2 Qxg5 10. Rd8+ Rxd8 11. Qxg5 Kc7 12.
>>>Qf4+ Kb6 13. Qxf7 $16 *
>>>
>>>The best line gives:
>>>r2r4/pp3Q1p/1kp5/8/8/5P1P/PPP2P1K/8 b - - 0 13
>>
>>After Bg7 why not Qxg7, intending
>>
>>1. Nf6+ gxf6 2. Qxf6 Kd7 3. Rad1 Bg7 4. Qxg7 Rag8 5. Qf6 Nf3+ (Rxg5 6. f4 Rhg8
>>7. Rxd4) 6. Qxf3 Qxg5 7. Rxd4+ Kc8
>
>Zappa played the the moves with different order. First 4...Nf3 and then
>5...Rag8.
>that means your line with Qxg7 leads to:
>1. Nf6+ gxf6 2. Qxf6 Kd7 3. Rad1 Bg7 4. Qxg7 Nf3 5.gxf3 Rag8 and now 6.Qxf7 is
>the best but that leads to a worse position that my 4.Rxd4 does.....
>
>Please correct me if i'm wrong......
>
>PS:Notice that the 7. Qxf7 Qxg5+ 8. Rg4 Qd8 9. Re1 h5 10. Rxg8 Rxg8+ 11. Kh2 Rf8
>doesn't work well due to the attack on the somewhat exposed white King....

First, to comment on George's main line, CM9_R1 says that after 4.Rxd4 Kc7
5.Qe7+, Black should play 5...Kc8, and the score is not very convincing for
White, compared to scores after the 4.Qxg7 line:

Time	Depth	Score	Positions	Moves
0:00	1/3	-0.24	1926		5...Kb8 6.Bf4 Qc7
0:00	1/4	-0.33	6247		5...Kb8 6.Rfd1 Rc8 7.Rd8 Qc7
0:00	1/5	-0.19	19003		5...Kb8 6.Rfd1 Rc8 7.Rd8 Qc7 8.Qb4
0:00	1/6	0.85	47845		5...Kb8 6.Rfd1 Nf3+ 7.gxf3 Bxd4
					8.Bf4+ Kc8 9.Rxd4 Rd8 10.Rxd8+
					Qxd8 11.Qxf7
0:00	1/7	1.30	104526		5...Kb8 6.Rfd1 Nf3+ 7.gxf3 Bxd4
					8.Bf4+ Kc8 9.Qxf7 Rd8 10.Qe6+ Rd7
					11.Rxd4
0:00	1/7	0.93	164969		5...Kc8 6.Rfd1 Nf3+ 7.gxf3 Bxd4
					8.Rxd4 Rg8 9.h4 Qc7
0:02	1/8	-0.06	551019		5...Kc8 6.Rfd1 Nf3+ 7.gxf3 Bxd4
					8.Rxd4 Qc7 9.Qe4 Rg8 10.f4
0:05	1/9	0.03	1297152		5...Kc8 6.Rfd1 Nf3+ 7.gxf3 Bxd4
					8.Rxd4 Qc7 9.Qe4 Rg8 10.h4 h6
0:12	1/10	0.02	3309633		5...Kc8 6.Rfd1 Nf3+ 7.gxf3 Bxd4
					8.Rxd4 Qc7 9.Qe4 Rg8 10.Qf5+ Kb8
					11.Kf1 c5 12.Bf4
0:22	1/11	0.59	6024873		5...Kc8 6.Rfd1 Nf3+ 7.gxf3 Bxd4
					8.Rxd4 Rg8 9.Qd7+ Kb8 10.Rg4 a6
					11.Bf4+ Ka7 12.Qxf7 Qe1+ 13.Kg2
					Rxg4+ 14.hxg4
0:41	1/12	0.73	11780049	5...Kc8 6.Rfd1 Nf3+ 7.gxf3 Bxd4
					8.Rxd4 Qc7 9.Qe4 Qa5 10.h4 h6 11.Bxh6
					Qxa2 12.Qe5 Rg8+ 13.Bg5
1:24	1/13	1.21	24061872	5...Kc8 6.Rfd1 Nf3+ 7.gxf3 Bxd4
					8.Rxd4 Rg8 9.Kh1 Qxg5 10.Rd8+ Rxd8
					11.Qxg5 Kc7 12.Qf4+ Rd6 13.Qxf7+
					Rd7 14.Qf4+ Rd6 15.Qf5

Also on that main line, The King prefers 9.Rg4 over 9.Kh2:

Time	Depth	Score	Positions	Moves
0:00	1/4	1.37	22348		9.f4 a6 10.Rd7 Ra7 11.Qxf7
0:00	1/5	0.85	48288		9.f4 a6 10.Rd7 Ra7 11.Kh2 Qf5
0:00	1/5	1.12	82889		9.h4 a6 10.Rd7 Qb5 11.Kh2 Qxb2
					12.Qxf7
0:00	1/5	1.29	85668		9.Kh2 Qxg5 10.Rd8+ Rxd8 11.Qxg5
					Kc7 12.Qf4+ Rd6 13.Qxf7+ Rd7
0:00	1/6	1.35	103368		9.Kh2 Qxg5 10.Rd8+ Rxd8 11.Qxg5
					Kc7 12.Qf4+ Kb6 13.Qxf7
0:00	1/6	1.79	207610		9.Rg4 Kc8 10.Bh4 Rh8 11.Rg7 Qc7
0:01	1/7	1.73	278746		9.Rg4 Kc8 10.Bf4 Qd8 11.Rxg8 Qxg8+
					12.Kh2 Qd8 13.Qxf7 h5 14.Qf5+ Qd7
					15.Qxh5
0:02	1/8	2.05	608764		9.Rg4 Kc8 10.Bf6 Rxg4+ 11.fxg4
					b5 12.Be5 Qd8 13.Qxf7 Qd7
0:05	1/9	1.77	1437335		9.Rg4 Kc8 10.Bf4 Qd8 11.Rxg8 Qxg8+
					12.Kh2 Qd8 13.Qxf7 b6 14.Qxh7 Qd7
					15.Qg8+ Kb7
0:13	1/10	2.12	3716988		9.Rg4 Kc8 10.Bf4 Qd8 11.Qxf7 Rf8
					12.Qxh7 a5 13.Kg2 a4 14.Be5 Qd7
					15.Qg7 Qxg7 16.Rxg7
0:31	1/11	2.11	8717170		9.Rg4 Kc8 10.Qxf7 Qd5 11.Qxh7 Rf8
					12.Bf4 Qd8 13.Bg3 c5 14.Rg5 Qd1+
					15.Kh2
1:14	1/12	2.41	21131657	9.Rg4 Kc8 10.Qxf7 Qd5 11.Qxh7 Rf8
					12.Bf4 Qd8 13.Bg3 Rh8 14.Qf5+ Qd7
					15.Qxd7+ Kxd7 16.Rg7+ Ke6 17.Rxb7
					Rxh3 18.Kg2

Finally, CM9_R1 also prefers 4.Qxg7 (this is on a P4-2.4):

Time	Depth	Score	Positions	Moves
0:00	1/3	2.74	1775		4.Rxd4+ Kc8 5.Qxg7 Re8 6.Qxh7 Qxa2
0:00	1/4	2.61	5442		4.Rxd4+ Kc8 5.Qxg7 Re8 6.Bf6 Qc5
0:00	1/5	2.93	17839		4.Rxd4+ Kc8 5.Qxg7 Re8 6.Qf6 Qc5
					7.c3
0:00	1/6	2.80	75317		4.Rxd4+ Kc7 5.Qxg7 Rhg8 6.Qf6 Kb6
					7.Rfd1 Rae8
0:00	1/7	0.99	191192		4.Rxd4+ Kc7 5.Qe7+ Kb8 6.Rfd1 Nf3+
					7.gxf3 Bxd4 8.Bf4+ Kc8 9.Rxd4 Rd8
					10.Rxd8+ Qxd8 11.Qxf7
0:02	1/8	1.50	596573		4.Rxd4+ Kc7 5.Qxg7 Rag8 6.Qxe5+
					Qxe5 7.Bf4 f6 8.Bxe5+ fxe5 9.Re4
0:05	1/9	1.94	1190170		4.Rxd4+ Kc7 5.Qxg7 Rag8 6.Qf6 Rxg5
					7.b4 Nf3+ 8.Qxf3 Qf5 9.Rf4
0:11	1/10	1.72	2737072		4.Rxd4+ Kc7 5.Qxg7 Rag8 6.Qxe5+
					Qxe5 7.Bf4 f6 8.Bxe5+ fxe5 9.Ra4
					a6 10.Re1
0:21	1/10	2.18	4899527		4.Qxg7 Rag8 5.Qf6 Rxg5 6.Qxh8 Qd5
					7.f3 d3 8.Kh1 d2 9.Qxh7 Ng6
0:56	1/11	2.55	12473466	4.Qxg7 Rag8 5.Qf6 Rxg5 6.f4 Rgg8
					7.fxe5 Kc8 8.Rxd4 Rd8 9.Rfd1 Rxd4
					10.Rxd4
2:03	1/12	2.43	27820307	4.Qxg7 Nf3+ 5.gxf3 Rag8 6.Qxf7+
					Kc8 7.f4 h6 8.b4 Qd8 9.Qe6+ Kb8
					10.Qe5+ Qc7 11.Qxc7+ Kxc7 12.h4
					hxg5 13.hxg5

jm



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