Author: Dan Ellwein
Date: 12:09:31 12/31/05
Go up one level in this thread
On December 31, 2005 at 13:25:40, John Merlino wrote: >On December 31, 2005 at 06:36:25, George Tsavdaris wrote: > >>On December 30, 2005 at 22:26:15, Zappa wrote: >> >>>On December 30, 2005 at 20:14:04, George Tsavdaris wrote: >>> >>>>On December 30, 2005 at 19:59:30, Will Singleton wrote: >>>> >>>>>Some computer just played this move against amateur on ICC, worked, but I wonder >>>>>if it's really sound. >>>>> >>>>>r3kb1r/pp3ppp/2p5/q3n1B1/3pN3/5Q1P/PPP2PP1/R4RK1 w kq - bm Nf6+? >>>> >>>>A quick/small analysis gives that all variations result in a white win but one >>>>leads to a white being better but Q+2P Vs 2R not very easy....: >>>> >>>>1. Nf6+ gxf6 2. Qxf6 Kd7 3. Rad1 Bg7 (3... Re8 4. Rxd4+ Kc8 5. Qxh8 Nf3+ 6. >>>>gxf3 Qxg5+ 7. Rg4 Qd5 8. Qd4 $18) (3... Rg8 4. Rxd4+ Kc7 5. Bf4 Kb6 6. Bxe5 Re8 >>>>7. Bg3 Rg7 8. Rfd1 Rxg3 9. fxg3 Bc5 10. R1d3 $18) 4. Rxd4+ Kc7 5. Qe7+ Kb8 6. >>>>Rfd1 Nf3+ 7. gxf3 Bxd4 8. Rxd4 Rg8 9. Kh2 Qxg5 10. Rd8+ Rxd8 11. Qxg5 Kc7 12. >>>>Qf4+ Kb6 13. Qxf7 $16 * >>>> >>>>The best line gives: >>>>r2r4/pp3Q1p/1kp5/8/8/5P1P/PPP2P1K/8 b - - 0 13 >>> >>>After Bg7 why not Qxg7, intending >>> >>>1. Nf6+ gxf6 2. Qxf6 Kd7 3. Rad1 Bg7 4. Qxg7 Rag8 5. Qf6 Nf3+ (Rxg5 6. f4 Rhg8 >>>7. Rxd4) 6. Qxf3 Qxg5 7. Rxd4+ Kc8 >> >>Zappa played the the moves with different order. First 4...Nf3 and then >>5...Rag8. >>that means your line with Qxg7 leads to: >>1. Nf6+ gxf6 2. Qxf6 Kd7 3. Rad1 Bg7 4. Qxg7 Nf3 5.gxf3 Rag8 and now 6.Qxf7 is >>the best but that leads to a worse position that my 4.Rxd4 does..... >> >>Please correct me if i'm wrong...... >> >>PS:Notice that the 7. Qxf7 Qxg5+ 8. Rg4 Qd8 9. Re1 h5 10. Rxg8 Rxg8+ 11. Kh2 Rf8 >>doesn't work well due to the attack on the somewhat exposed white King.... > >First, to comment on George's main line, CM9_R1 says that after 4.Rxd4 Kc7 >5.Qe7+, Black should play 5...Kc8, and the score is not very convincing for >White, compared to scores after the 4.Qxg7 line: > >Time Depth Score Positions Moves >0:00 1/3 -0.24 1926 5...Kb8 6.Bf4 Qc7 >0:00 1/4 -0.33 6247 5...Kb8 6.Rfd1 Rc8 7.Rd8 Qc7 >0:00 1/5 -0.19 19003 5...Kb8 6.Rfd1 Rc8 7.Rd8 Qc7 8.Qb4 >0:00 1/6 0.85 47845 5...Kb8 6.Rfd1 Nf3+ 7.gxf3 Bxd4 > 8.Bf4+ Kc8 9.Rxd4 Rd8 10.Rxd8+ > Qxd8 11.Qxf7 >0:00 1/7 1.30 104526 5...Kb8 6.Rfd1 Nf3+ 7.gxf3 Bxd4 > 8.Bf4+ Kc8 9.Qxf7 Rd8 10.Qe6+ Rd7 > 11.Rxd4 >0:00 1/7 0.93 164969 5...Kc8 6.Rfd1 Nf3+ 7.gxf3 Bxd4 > 8.Rxd4 Rg8 9.h4 Qc7 >0:02 1/8 -0.06 551019 5...Kc8 6.Rfd1 Nf3+ 7.gxf3 Bxd4 > 8.Rxd4 Qc7 9.Qe4 Rg8 10.f4 >0:05 1/9 0.03 1297152 5...Kc8 6.Rfd1 Nf3+ 7.gxf3 Bxd4 > 8.Rxd4 Qc7 9.Qe4 Rg8 10.h4 h6 >0:12 1/10 0.02 3309633 5...Kc8 6.Rfd1 Nf3+ 7.gxf3 Bxd4 > 8.Rxd4 Qc7 9.Qe4 Rg8 10.Qf5+ Kb8 > 11.Kf1 c5 12.Bf4 >0:22 1/11 0.59 6024873 5...Kc8 6.Rfd1 Nf3+ 7.gxf3 Bxd4 > 8.Rxd4 Rg8 9.Qd7+ Kb8 10.Rg4 a6 > 11.Bf4+ Ka7 12.Qxf7 Qe1+ 13.Kg2 > Rxg4+ 14.hxg4 >0:41 1/12 0.73 11780049 5...Kc8 6.Rfd1 Nf3+ 7.gxf3 Bxd4 > 8.Rxd4 Qc7 9.Qe4 Qa5 10.h4 h6 11.Bxh6 > Qxa2 12.Qe5 Rg8+ 13.Bg5 >1:24 1/13 1.21 24061872 5...Kc8 6.Rfd1 Nf3+ 7.gxf3 Bxd4 > 8.Rxd4 Rg8 9.Kh1 Qxg5 10.Rd8+ Rxd8 > 11.Qxg5 Kc7 12.Qf4+ Rd6 13.Qxf7+ > Rd7 14.Qf4+ Rd6 15.Qf5 > >Also on that main line, The King prefers 9.Rg4 over 9.Kh2: > >Time Depth Score Positions Moves >0:00 1/4 1.37 22348 9.f4 a6 10.Rd7 Ra7 11.Qxf7 >0:00 1/5 0.85 48288 9.f4 a6 10.Rd7 Ra7 11.Kh2 Qf5 >0:00 1/5 1.12 82889 9.h4 a6 10.Rd7 Qb5 11.Kh2 Qxb2 > 12.Qxf7 >0:00 1/5 1.29 85668 9.Kh2 Qxg5 10.Rd8+ Rxd8 11.Qxg5 > Kc7 12.Qf4+ Rd6 13.Qxf7+ Rd7 >0:00 1/6 1.35 103368 9.Kh2 Qxg5 10.Rd8+ Rxd8 11.Qxg5 > Kc7 12.Qf4+ Kb6 13.Qxf7 >0:00 1/6 1.79 207610 9.Rg4 Kc8 10.Bh4 Rh8 11.Rg7 Qc7 >0:01 1/7 1.73 278746 9.Rg4 Kc8 10.Bf4 Qd8 11.Rxg8 Qxg8+ > 12.Kh2 Qd8 13.Qxf7 h5 14.Qf5+ Qd7 > 15.Qxh5 >0:02 1/8 2.05 608764 9.Rg4 Kc8 10.Bf6 Rxg4+ 11.fxg4 > b5 12.Be5 Qd8 13.Qxf7 Qd7 >0:05 1/9 1.77 1437335 9.Rg4 Kc8 10.Bf4 Qd8 11.Rxg8 Qxg8+ > 12.Kh2 Qd8 13.Qxf7 b6 14.Qxh7 Qd7 > 15.Qg8+ Kb7 >0:13 1/10 2.12 3716988 9.Rg4 Kc8 10.Bf4 Qd8 11.Qxf7 Rf8 > 12.Qxh7 a5 13.Kg2 a4 14.Be5 Qd7 > 15.Qg7 Qxg7 16.Rxg7 >0:31 1/11 2.11 8717170 9.Rg4 Kc8 10.Qxf7 Qd5 11.Qxh7 Rf8 > 12.Bf4 Qd8 13.Bg3 c5 14.Rg5 Qd1+ > 15.Kh2 >1:14 1/12 2.41 21131657 9.Rg4 Kc8 10.Qxf7 Qd5 11.Qxh7 Rf8 > 12.Bf4 Qd8 13.Bg3 Rh8 14.Qf5+ Qd7 > 15.Qxd7+ Kxd7 16.Rg7+ Ke6 17.Rxb7 > Rxh3 18.Kg2 > >Finally, CM9_R1 also prefers 4.Qxg7 (this is on a P4-2.4): > >Time Depth Score Positions Moves >0:00 1/3 2.74 1775 4.Rxd4+ Kc8 5.Qxg7 Re8 6.Qxh7 Qxa2 >0:00 1/4 2.61 5442 4.Rxd4+ Kc8 5.Qxg7 Re8 6.Bf6 Qc5 >0:00 1/5 2.93 17839 4.Rxd4+ Kc8 5.Qxg7 Re8 6.Qf6 Qc5 > 7.c3 >0:00 1/6 2.80 75317 4.Rxd4+ Kc7 5.Qxg7 Rhg8 6.Qf6 Kb6 > 7.Rfd1 Rae8 >0:00 1/7 0.99 191192 4.Rxd4+ Kc7 5.Qe7+ Kb8 6.Rfd1 Nf3+ > 7.gxf3 Bxd4 8.Bf4+ Kc8 9.Rxd4 Rd8 > 10.Rxd8+ Qxd8 11.Qxf7 >0:02 1/8 1.50 596573 4.Rxd4+ Kc7 5.Qxg7 Rag8 6.Qxe5+ > Qxe5 7.Bf4 f6 8.Bxe5+ fxe5 9.Re4 >0:05 1/9 1.94 1190170 4.Rxd4+ Kc7 5.Qxg7 Rag8 6.Qf6 Rxg5 > 7.b4 Nf3+ 8.Qxf3 Qf5 9.Rf4 >0:11 1/10 1.72 2737072 4.Rxd4+ Kc7 5.Qxg7 Rag8 6.Qxe5+ > Qxe5 7.Bf4 f6 8.Bxe5+ fxe5 9.Ra4 > a6 10.Re1 >0:21 1/10 2.18 4899527 4.Qxg7 Rag8 5.Qf6 Rxg5 6.Qxh8 Qd5 > 7.f3 d3 8.Kh1 d2 9.Qxh7 Ng6 >0:56 1/11 2.55 12473466 4.Qxg7 Rag8 5.Qf6 Rxg5 6.f4 Rgg8 > 7.fxe5 Kc8 8.Rxd4 Rd8 9.Rfd1 Rxd4 > 10.Rxd4 >2:03 1/12 2.43 27820307 4.Qxg7 Nf3+ 5.gxf3 Rag8 6.Qxf7+ > Kc8 7.f4 h6 8.b4 Qd8 9.Qe6+ Kb8 > 10.Qe5+ Qc7 11.Qxc7+ Kxc7 12.h4 > hxg5 13.hxg5 > >jm Hi John thanks for the analysis from CM9_R1... after the moves 1.Nf6+ gxf6 2.Qxf6 Kd7 3.Rad1 we have this position [d]r4b1r/pp1k1p1p/2p2Q2/q3n1B1/3p4/7P/PPP2PP1/3R1RK1 b - - 0 3 CMX_Explode waffles between Rg8 and Bg7 and then finally settles on d3 P3/850 Time Depth Score Positions Moves ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- 0:00 1/3 -1.31 1970 3...Rg8 4.Rxd4+ Kc7 5.Bf4 0:00 1/4 -0.42 9144 3...Rg8 4.f4 Rxg5 5.Rxd4+ Kc8 6.Qxg5 0:00 1/5 0.48 29544 3...Rg8 4.f4 Rxg5 5.Qxg5 f6 6.Qxf6 0:01 1/6 0.52 95225 3...Rg8 4.f4 Kc8 5.fxe5 Bc5 6.a3 0:03 1/7 0.39 236483 3...Rg8 4.f4 Kc8 5.fxe5 Bc5 6.b4 Bxb4 7.Rxd4 0:07 1/8 0.39 603875 3...Rg8 4.f4 Kc8 5.fxe5 Bc5 6.b4 Bxb4 7.Rxd4 0:23 1/9 0.26 1984183 3...Rg8 4.f4 Re8 5.Qf5+ Kc7 6.fxe5 Kb8 7.Qxf7 Bg7 8.Bf6 Bxf6 9.exf6 0:28 1/9 0.14 2452244 3...Bg7 4.Qxg7 Rhg8 5.Rxd4+ Kc7 6.Qxe5+ Qxe5 7.Bf4 f6 8.Bxe5+ fxe5 9.Rdd1 0:45 2/10 0.86 4087113 3...Bg7 4.Qxg7 Rhg8 5.Rxd4+ Kc7 6.Qf6 Rae8 7.Bf4 Kb6 8.Rdd1 Qc5 1:19 2/10 0.32 7155564 3...Rg8 4.Rxd4+ Kc7 5.Bf4 Bg7 6.Bxe5+ Qxe5 7.Qxf7+ Kb6 8.Rb4+ Ka5 9.Rxb7 Qe4 10.Rxa7+ Rxa7 11.Qxa7+ Kb5 2:22 2/11 1.08 13110141 3...Rg8 4.Rxd4+ Kc7 5.Bf4 Kb6 6.Bxe5 Re8 7.Re4 Qd5 8.Rfe1 Bc5 9.b3 2:50 2/11 0.75 15777284 3...Bg7 4.Qxg7 Rag8 5.Rxd4+ Kc7 6.Qf6 Rxg5 7.b4 Qb5 8.f4 Rxg2+ 9.Kxg2 Rg8+ 10.Kf2 6:29 2/11 0.33 34255144 3...d3 4.Bf4 Bd6 5.Rxd3 Nxd3 6.Qxf7+ Be7 7.Rd1 Qd5 8.Rxd3 Qxd3 9.cxd3 Rhf8 10.Qc4 Rae8 11:18 2/12 0.47 59880195 3...d3 4.Bf4 Bd6 5.Rxd3 Nxd3 6.Qxf7+ Be7 7.Rd1 Qe1+ 8.Rxe1 Nxe1 9.Qf5+ Ke8 10.Qh5+ Kd7 11.Qd1+ Ke8 12.Qxe1 Rf8 Dan
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