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Subject: Re: Fairly good examples of eval inconsistencies between Rybka versions...

Author: enrico carrisco

Date: 16:09:12 01/02/06

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On January 02, 2006 at 04:26:55, Vasik Rajlich wrote:

>On January 01, 2006 at 17:06:43, enrico carrisco wrote:
>
>>I stated here in CCC days after Rybka was released that the nps was manipulated
>>but lacked any real convincing examples of this.  I even ran the idea by Chrilly
>>when he was disassembing Rybka, but he had no comment on it.
>>
>>In the following position, we see two different evaluations for Rybka 1.0 Beta
>>64-bit and Rybka 1.01 Preview 2 64-bit.  Of course, without knowing what
>>undocumented changes (if any) were made from 1.0 Beta to Preview 2, it's hard to
>>deduce anything concrete.  However, Vasik has posted here a few times that
>>nothing was changed with the strength or eval (I believe...  Not trying to quote
>>anything...)
>>
>>Specifically, the time-to-ply figures are odd.  Preview 2 appears to slow down
>>in time to ply while Rybka 1.0 Beta seems to 'speed up' as the depth increases
>>(from nps figures.)
>>
>>The second position, below, shows the differences in nps better -- where the
>>qsearch demands a little recognition...  :)  Time-to-ply is very close (unlike
>>the first position) but the nps differs substantially...
>>
>
>Enrico,
>
>I already explained this here - did you really miss it?

Hello Vas.  Yes, I am afraid I did miss it.  Do you have a link to the message?
I notice from Uri's reply to this thread it seems you posted something about
changing Rybka's node count..  Is this correct?  I would be interested to read
your posting on this.

>
>If you don't mind, I have two nosy questions for you:
>
>1) What is the Hiarcs definition of node?

I'm not clear on what you're asking here with your inclusion of HIARCS.  Our
definition does not differ from the general definition of a node (any move made
by the program in its "thinking" - i.e. updating a data structure.)

Perhaps I am missing some sarcasm?

>2) Do you have access to the Hiarcs sources?

Again -- I'm not sure how this relates in the matter of my original question.
It is well known that Mark is the programmer of HIARCS.  If my activities
included programming, I would be listed as a co-author.

If the inference is that without a programming contribution to HIARCS my
knowledge or input on such a matter is discounted -- please just say so.

However, I believe there are many knowledgeable programmers in this forum that
do not have a top 10 (or even 20) engine.

If I've struck a nerve with you, it was not my intention.  I just wanted to know
why the positions I posted gave varied eval by Rybka versions.  I would have
assumed other posts in this thread which make very direct inferences to Rybka's
roots would have been more worthy of any sarcastic retort than my inquiry.

Regards,

-elc.

>
>Thanks,
>Vas
>
>>Position 1 [time-to-ply oddness]:
>>[D]4k3/1b4R1/q3p2p/2B2p2/8/1R6/1K6/8 w - - 0 88
>>
>>
>>Rybka 1.0 beta 64 bit 512mb hash A64-2.7 (CP GUI):
>>
>>00:00:00.0 2.40 3 65 Rbxb7
>>00:00:00.0 2.41 4 435 Rbxb7
>>00:00:00.0 2.65 5 1210 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3
>>00:00:00.1 5.63 6 2476 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4
>>00:00:00.1 5.63 7 4189 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4 Qd2+ Kb5
>>00:00:00.1 5.63 8 8222 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4 Qd2+ Kb5 Qe2+ Ka5
>>00:00:00.1 6.50 9 16000 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4 Qd2+ Kb5 Qe2+ Ka5 Qd2+
>>00:00:00.3 6.56 10 41344 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4 Qd2+ Kb5 Qe2+ Kb6 Qb2+
>>00:00:00.5 7.43 11 118209 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4 Qd2+ Kb5 Qe2+ Kb6 Qb2+
>>00:00:01.0 7.43 12 200997 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4 Qd2+ Kb5 Qe2+ Kb6 Qb2+
>>00:00:02.0 7.43 13 477000 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4 Qd2+ Kb5 Qd3+ Kb6 Qd8+
>>00:00:04.0 7.49 14 987862 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4 Qd2+ Kb5 Qd3+ Kb6 Qd8+
>>00:00:08.2 7.49 15 2073381 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4 Qd2+ Kb5 Qd3+ Kb6 Qd8+
>>00:00:17.7 7.49 16 4778724 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4 Qd2+ Kb5 Qd3+ Kb6 Qd8+
>>00:00:49.2 8.35 17 19664761 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4 Qd2+ Kb5 Qd3+ Kb6 Qb1+
>>00:01:24.2 8.35 18 31087304 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4 Qd2+ Kb5 Qd3+ Kb6 Qb1+
>>00:02:51.4 8.41 19 66442682 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4 Qd2+ Kb5 Qd3+ Kb6 Qb1+
>>
>>
>>Rybka 1.01 Preview 2 64 bit 512mb hash A64-2.7 (CP GUI):
>>
>>00:00:00.0 2.40 3 946 Rbxb7
>>00:00:00.0 2.41 4 2031 Rbxb7
>>00:00:00.0 2.65 5 5626 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3
>>00:00:00.0 5.63 6 10221 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4
>>00:00:00.0 5.63 7 15896 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4 Qd2+ Kb5
>>00:00:00.1 5.63 8 30368 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4 Qd2+ Kb5 Qe2+ Ka5
>>00:00:00.1 6.50 9 53606 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4 Qd2+ Kb5 Qe2+ Ka5 Qd2+ Kb6 Qb2+
>>Kc6
>>00:00:00.2 6.56 10 111628 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4 Qd2+ Kb5 Qe2+ Kb6 Qb2+ Kc6
>>Qxg7 Rxg7
>>00:00:00.6 7.43 11 238776 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4 Qd2+ Kb5 Qe2+ Kb6 Qb2+ Kc6
>>Qxg7 Rxg7 f4
>>00:00:01.0 7.43 12 407147 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4 Qd2+ Kb5 Qe2+ Kb6 Qb2+ Kc6
>>Qxg7 Rxg7 f4
>>00:00:02.6 7.43 13 1136628 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4 Qd2+ Kb5 Qd3+ Kb6 Qd8+ Ka6
>>Qa8+ Kb5 Qxb7+
>>00:00:04.7 7.49 14 2097110 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4 Qd2+ Kb5 Qd3+ Kb6 Qd8+ Ka6
>>Qa8+ Kb5 Qxb7+
>>00:00:08.3 7.49 15 3812588 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4 Qd2+ Kb5 Qd3+ Kb6 Qd8+ Ka6
>>Qa8+ Kb5 Qxb7+
>>00:00:18.0 7.49 16 8337775 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4 Qd2+ Kb5 Qd3+ Kb6 Qd8+ Ka6
>>Qa8+ Kb5 Qxb7+
>>00:00:59.2 7.49 17 29186799 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4 Qb1+ Ka5 Qxb7 Rxb7 h5 Re7+
>>Kf8 Rxe6+ Kf7
>>00:01:50.9 8.35 18 55194222 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4 Qb1+ Ka5 Qxb7 Rxb7 f4 Re7+
>>Kf8 Rxe6+ Kg7
>>00:03:30.0 8.41 19 104388523 Rbxb7 Qe2+ Kb3 Qd3+ Kb4 Qb1+ Ka5 Qxb7 Rxb7 f4 Kb5
>>f3 Kc6 f2
>>
>>
>>
>>Position 2 [nps oddness]:
>>[D]r2qkb1r/1p1b1ppp/p1nppn2/6B1/3NP3/2N5/PPPQ1PPP/2KR1B1R w kq - 0 1
>>
>>
>>Rybka 1.0 beta 64 bit 512mb hash A64-2.7 (CB GUI):
>>
>>9.Nxc6
>>  ²  (0.37)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
>>9.Kb1
>>  ²  (0.39)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
>>9.Kb1
>>  ²  (0.32)   Depth: 4   00:00:00
>>9.Kb1 Be7
>>  ²  (0.27)   Depth: 5   00:00:00
>>9.Kb1 h6 10.Be3
>>  =  (0.22)   Depth: 6   00:00:00  24kN
>>9.Be2 Be7 10.Nxc6
>>  =  (0.24)   Depth: 6   00:00:00  28kN
>>9.Be2 Be7 10.Kb1 0-0
>>  =  (0.25)   Depth: 7   00:00:00  49kN
>>9.Be2 Be7 10.Qe3 0-0 11.Qg3
>>  =  (0.23)   Depth: 8   00:00:00  93kN
>>9.Be2 h6 10.Be3 Be7 11.b3 0-0
>>  =  (0.16)   Depth: 9   00:00:01  215kN
>>9.Nxc6 Bxc6 10.f3 Qa5 11.Bf4 0-0-0
>>  ²  (0.28)   Depth: 9   00:00:01  259kN
>>9.Nxc6 Bxc6 10.f3 Qa5 11.Kb1 Be7 12.Be2
>>  ²  (0.28)   Depth: 10   00:00:02  389kN
>>9.Nxc6 Bxc6 10.f3 Qc7 11.Kb1 Be7 12.Bf4 Rd8
>>  =  (0.21)   Depth: 11   00:00:04  674kN
>>9.f4 Qc7 10.Be2 Be7 11.Kb1 h6 12.Bh4 0-0
>>  =  (0.23)   Depth: 11   00:00:11  1658kN
>>9.f4 Qc7 10.Be2 Be7 11.Kb1 h6 12.Bh4 0-0 13.Nf3
>>  =  (0.24)   Depth: 12   00:00:16  2429kN
>>9.f4 Qc7 10.Be2 Be7 11.Kb1 h6 12.Bh4 Rd8 13.Nb3 Bc8
>>  =  (0.20)   Depth: 13   00:00:27  4147kN
>>9.f4 Qc7 10.Be2 Be7 11.Kb1 h6 12.Bh4 Rd8 13.Nb3 Bc8
>>  =  (0.19)   Depth: 14   00:01:02  9484kN
>>9.f4 Qc7 10.Be2 Be7 11.Kb1 0-0-0 12.Nxc6 Bxc6 13.Qe3 Kb8
>>  =  (0.20)   Depth: 15   00:02:28  23322kN
>>
>>
>>Rybka 1.01 Preview 2 64 bit 512mb hash A64-2.7 (CB GUI):
>>
>>9.Nxc6
>>  ²  (0.37)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
>>9.Kb1
>>  ²  (0.39)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
>>9.Kb1
>>  ²  (0.32)   Depth: 4   00:00:00
>>9.Kb1 Be7
>>  ²  (0.27)   Depth: 5   00:00:00
>>9.Kb1 h6 10.Be3
>>  =  (0.22)   Depth: 6   00:00:00  50kN
>>9.Be2 Be7 10.Nxc6
>>  =  (0.24)   Depth: 6   00:00:00  61kN
>>9.Be2 Be7 10.Kb1 0-0
>>  =  (0.25)   Depth: 7   00:00:00  103kN
>>9.Be2 Be7 10.Qe3 0-0 11.Qg3
>>  =  (0.23)   Depth: 8   00:00:00  203kN
>>9.Be2 h6 10.Be3 Be7 11.b3 0-0
>>  =  (0.16)   Depth: 9   00:00:01  442kN
>>9.Nxc6 Bxc6 10.f3 Qa5 11.Bf4 0-0-0
>>  ²  (0.28)   Depth: 9   00:00:01  519kN
>>9.Nxc6 Bxc6 10.f3 Qa5 11.Kb1 Be7 12.Be2
>>  ²  (0.28)   Depth: 10   00:00:02  752kN
>>9.Nxc6 Bxc6 10.f3 Qc7 11.Kb1 Be7 12.Bf4 Rd8
>>  =  (0.21)   Depth: 11   00:00:04  1250kN
>>9.f4 Qc7 10.Be2 Be7 11.Kb1 h6 12.Bh4 0-0
>>  =  (0.23)   Depth: 11   00:00:11  3124kN
>>9.f4 Qc7 10.Be2 Be7 11.Kb1 h6 12.Bh4 0-0 13.Nf3
>>  =  (0.24)   Depth: 12   00:00:16  4578kN
>>9.f4 Qc7 10.Be2 Be7 11.Kb1 h6 12.Bh4 Rd8 13.Nb3 Bc8
>>  =  (0.20)   Depth: 13   00:00:28  7698kN
>>9.f4 Qc7 10.Be2 Be7 11.Kb1 h6 12.Bh4 Rd8 13.Nb3 Bc8 14.Qe3
>>  =  (0.19)   Depth: 14   00:01:02  17348kN
>>9.f4 Qc7 10.Be2 Be7 11.Kb1 0-0-0 12.Nxc6 Bxc6 13.Qe3 Kb8 14.e5 dxe5 15.fxe5 Nd5
>>  =  (0.20)   Depth: 15   00:02:29  41641kN



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