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Subject: piece activity, pawns be damned

Author: Joseph Ciarrochi

Date: 23:47:55 01/04/06

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Perhaps another way to put rybka's preference (which is consistent with what
kurt said): Rybka prefers piece activity over pawns (more so than other
programs)

I wonder if any other programs are like this (perhaps Junior?)

best
Joseph



On January 05, 2006 at 02:27:18, Joseph Ciarrochi wrote:

>yes, you may be right. Maybe rybka is focusing on the open F file rather than
>missing pawn.
>
>I should note that rybka also values the pawn less if you remove the d pawn, c
>pawn, A pawn, or g pawn, so it does not seem specific to the f file.
>
>all following evaluations at depth = 14
>
>d2 missing
>
>Rybka = -.11
>fritz9 = -.37
>
>c2 missing
>
>Rybka = -.17
>fritz 9 = - .64
>
>g2 missing
>
>rybka = -.17
>fritz 9 = -.58
>
>a pawn missing
>
>Rybka -.07
>fritz 9 - .32
>
>
>
>It looks like the difference could be specific to the static evaluation of  the
>pawn, although you are right there could be other interpretations.
>
>I ran a shootout of the case when the f2 pawn is missing (is involves engines
>playing themselves at plys ranging from 3 to 11).  White only wins 35 % so far
>(32 games), so I think rybka underestimates how bad the position is for white.
>(this of course is an artificial situation and may say nothing about how rybka
>handles real situations)
>
>best
>Joseph
>
>
>
>
>
>On January 05, 2006 at 02:04:53, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>
>>On January 05, 2006 at 00:39:01, Joseph Ciarrochi wrote:
>>
>>>Rybka may have the greatest disdain for pawns of any other program.
>>>
>>>try this experiment out. Go to the start position of the chess board and remove
>>>the f2 pawn (as is typically done when a gm gives pawn odds).
>>>
>>>Here are the evaluations of different engines at depth of 15. Can you figure out
>>>which engine is not like the others?
>>>
>>>Rybka =       -.26
>>>fritz9 =      -.78
>>>fruit 2.2.1 = -.70
>>>Aristarch    = - .96
>>>
>>>Rybka seems to treat pawns with utter disdain. I wonder what would happen if you
>>>lowered the pawn value of the other engines to , say .50 or .75?
>>>
>>>(I know it is not this simple and all the engines will consider the pawns in the
>>>context of the position, but still, i find this amazing).
>>>
>>>Maybe pawns really are only with .75 in many positions
>>>
>>>best
>>>Joseph
>>
>>      Hi Joseph
>>      You conclusion may also be completely wrong. It is
>>      possible that Rybka gives a higher bonus than other
>>      engines for the open f-file.
>>      Best regards
>>      Kurt [http://www.utzingerk.com]



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