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Subject: Re: rybka wins over 90% against fruit 2.2. and fritz9 at fixed depth

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 10:58:22 01/06/06

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On January 06, 2006 at 12:55:27, Uri Blass wrote:

>On January 06, 2006 at 12:07:11, Albert Silver wrote:
>
>>>>>>These numbers seem so imbalanced. I wonder if there is not some sort of bug in
>>>>>>the fritz gui or something.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>best
>>>>>>Joseph
>>>>>
>>>>>Your title is misleading so I changed it in my reply.
>>>>>My opinion is that Rybka searches x+2 plies when it claims to search x plies.
>>>>>
>>>>>From my experience it can see at fixed depth of 1 ply things that other programs
>>>>>see at fixed depth of 3 plies
>>>>>
>>>>>Here is an example
>>>>>
>>>>>[D]3k2r1/ppb5/3p4/r2N1p2/8/8/1P6/1K2RB1R b - - 0 1
>>>>>[D]3k2r1/pp1b4/3p4/r2N1p2/8/8/1P6/1K2RB1R b - - 0 1
>>>>>
>>>>>Rybka does not capture the knight at depth 1 in the first case but capture the
>>>>>knight ar depth 1 in the second case.
>>>>>
>>>>>Can Vasik explain why?
>>>>>
>>>>>evaluation?
>>>>>I do not believe it.
>>>>>
>>>>>It must be search and rybka search after Rxd5 Bc4 black move and see that in the
>>>>>first case no move save black from a loss of full rook when in the second case
>>>>>it searches Rxd5 Bc4 Bc6
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>Hi all,
>>>>
>>>>It's clearly seen that Rybka uses some form of selective search different from
>>>>others' in the quescence search which is not a full width search, therefore is
>>>>not counted in nps. This explains the low nps, Rybka does extra work in the QS
>>>>which pays off.
>>>>Obvious, that a usual 1 ply search cannot be such better even with a superb
>>>>evaluation but a Rybka-type can be.
>>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>László
>>>
>>>No
>>>
>>>It is not clear
>>>
>>>I can achieve the same effect by not counting nodes in the qsearch and writing
>>>depth x when the real depth is x+2
>>>
>>>It is possible that rybka does nothing special except playing better when vasik
>>>tries to hide what it does by misleading information.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>With all due respect, shouldn't you try to get more information before making
>>such suggestions? For example, another program famous for its low full-width ply
>>counts is Hiarcs, and in an exchange between Vasik and Enrico, Vasik said he
>>thought that both he and Uniacke did similar things though withut seeing the
>>source code, it was impossible to confirm. If Hiarcs were equally successful,
>>would you also accuse Uniacke of 'misleading information'?
>>
>>                                       Albert
>
>I showed in the past a position when rybka can search less than 10 nodes per
>second on my fast hardware so it seems clear that his definition of nodes is not
>correct and that rybka does a lot of search inside what is defined by it as a
>node.
>
>I am afraid that you may even get less nodes per second in the following
>position when I see no analysis in few minutes.
>
>
>New game - Rybka 1.0 Beta 32-bit
>4k3/qqqqqqqq/8/8/8/8/QQQQQQQQ/4K3 w - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Rybka 1.0 Beta 32-bit:
>
>
>(,  06.01.2006)
>
>
>I wonder how many nodes per second search your Rybka 1.0 Beta in that position?
>
>Uri

It seems that this is a bad position because there is a forced mate but I think
that it is easy to find a similiar position when there is no forced mate and
rybka may show analysis in that case.

You may try the following position

[D]4kq2/qqqqqqqq/8/8/8/8/QQQQQQQQ/4K3 w - - 0 1

Rybka needs more than a minute to show analysis.

This is not the best position because rybka shows 97 knodes in 2:57 minutes and
I will try to find the previous position that I analyzed and improve it.



Uri



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