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Subject: Re: No Benefit From Null Move

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 09:09:49 01/07/06

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On January 07, 2006 at 09:14:03, Michael Neish wrote:

>
>I hope this doesn't come across as too much of a beginner's question.
>
>Is it beyond question that null move improves search?
>
>The reason I ask is that I recently dusted off my old program, and ran a few
>tests on it, and was dismayed to discover that I seem to be getting very little
>benefit from using it.  This is trying out different parameters (R-2, R-3, at
>depth >2, >3, etc.).
>
>I thought the whole idea of using null was that you could get a swifter cut-off
>and hence reduce the number of nodes searched to reach a given depth, but I'm
>getting little or no reduction at all, and in some cases even an increase.
>
>Depending on the position, and the parameters used, about 40-60% of null moves
>performed fail high and return immediately.  The remainder move on to a normal
>search.  So I thought that, in my program's case, perhaps the nodes wasted on
>null move searches that don't fail high is almost the same as those saved by
>null move searches that do fail high.  Does this make sense?
>
>Is a cut-off rate of about 40-60% to be expected, or should it be higher?
>
>For what it's worth, around 80% of nodes in the tree are in Quiesce().  Could
>this have something to do with it?
>
>So barring an error in my implementation, can anyone comment on why null move is
>giving me virtually null benefit?
>
>Thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to reply.
>
>Regards,
>
>Mike.

The obvious question is, "where is your bug?"  :)

null-move should _greatly_ reduce the size of the tree.  And reduce it enough
that you get another 1-2 plies of search depth in the same time.  So, are you
sure you are doing the null-move test correctly?

make a null move
search resulting position to depth-R-1
if result >= beta, just return beta here and don't search any real moves at all.
otherwise, do a normal search and pretend the null-move search was never done.



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