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Subject: Re: Another analyis - Win and Draw!

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 11:04:57 01/09/06

Go up one level in this thread


On January 09, 2006 at 08:55:58, Eduard Nemeth wrote:

>On January 09, 2006 at 08:38:08, Eduard Nemeth wrote:
>
>>
>>>[D]r6k/2PK1p2/7p/8/2R5/8/8/8 w - - 0 62
>>>
>>>Rybka has completely outplayed Fruit and is probably in a position that most
>>>programs (or humans) would give up by now. This is a position that even a 500
>>>ELO player would win against Kasparov. Simply Queen the pawn with check and then
>>>it is a simple mop up of the pawns and a simple Rook mate. 4.07/13 3.  Well
>>>Rybka actually manages to screw this up and manages only a draw !!!
>>>
>>>.......62.Ra4?? WHAT IN THE WORLD IS THIS ????!!!!????!!!????? Rybka goes for a
>>>Queen and Rook with 2 pawns ending instead a simple Rook win. Although this
>>>might be a win for white I could not get any engine to find a win. It might be >a draw even with best play by white.
>>
>>Ok, then is Shredder 7.04 very bad, and Rybka at last great! :-)
>>
>>See this analyses on my slow P3 600 with 64 MB hash (without EGTBs)!!
>>
>>r6k/2PK1p2/7p/8/2R5/8/8/8 w - - 0 1
>>
>>Analysis by Shredder 7.04:
>>
>>1.c8T+ Txc8 2.Txc8+ Kg7 3.Ke7 h5 4.Tc6 f5 5.Tf6 h4 6.Txf5 Kh6 7.Ke6 h3 8.Tf2 Kh5
>>  +-  (4.79)   Tiefe: 13/22   00:00:05  458kN
>>1.c8T+ Txc8 2.Txc8+ Kg7 3.Tc6 h5 4.Ke7 f5 5.Ke6 Kg6 6.Ke5+ Kg5 7.Tc1 h4 8.Tg1+
>>Kh5 9.Kxf5 h3
>>  +-  (4.98)   Tiefe: 14/26   00:00:08  987kN
>>1.Ta4 Tg8 2.Tb4 Ta8 3.Tb8+ Kg7 4.c8D Ta7+ 5.Kc6 h5
>>  +-  (4.99)   Tiefe: 14/30   00:00:11  1436kN
>>1.Ta4 Txa4 2.c8D+ Kg7 3.Dc3+ Kg8 4.Dc6 Ta7+ 5.Ke8 f6 6.Dg2+ Tg7 7.Dd5+ Kh7
>>8.Df5+ Kg8 9.Dxf6 Kh7 10.Df5+ Kh8
>>  +-  (5.11)   Tiefe: 14/32   00:00:15  2061kN
>>1.Ta4 Txa4 2.c8D+ Kg7 3.Dc3+ Kg8 4.Dc6 Ta7+ 5.Ke8 f6 6.Db6 Tg7 7.Dxf6 Kh7 8.Kf8
>>Tb7 9.Df5+ Kh8 10.Df6+ Kh7 11.Df5+ Kh8 12.Df6+ Kh7 13.Df5+
>>  +-  (5.27)   Tiefe: 15/36   00:00:21  3006kN
>>1.Ta4 Txa4 2.c8D+ Kg7 3.Dc3+ Kg8 4.Dc6 Ta7+ 5.Ke8 f6 6.Dd5+ Kg7 7.Dg2+ Kh7 8.Kf8
>>h5 9.De4+ f5 10.De7+ Txe7
>>  +-  (5.29)   Tiefe: 16/39   00:00:39  5954kN
>>
>>(Nemeth, Privat 09.01.2006)
>>
>>Only Draw.
>>
>>
>>r6k/2PK1p2/7p/8/2R5/8/8/8 w - - 0 1
>>
>>Analysis by Rybka 1.01 Beta 9 32-bit:
>>
>>1.Ta4 Txa4 2.c8D+ Kg7 3.Dc3+ f6 4.Dg3+ Kh7 5.Ke6 Ta6+ 6.Kd5 f5 7.Ke5 Tg6
>>  +-  (4.37)   Tiefe: 15   00:01:29  4119kN
>>1.c8D+ Txc8 2.Txc8+ Kg7 3.Ke7 h5 4.Tc1 Kg6 5.Tc6+ Kf5 6.Tc7 h4 7.Kxf7 h3
>>  +-  (4.42)   Tiefe: 15   00:01:47  6187kN
>>1.c8D+ Txc8 2.Txc8+ Kg7 3.Ke7 h5 4.Tc1 Kg6 5.Tc6+ Kf5 6.Tc7 h4 7.Kxf7 h3
>>  +-  (4.42)   Tiefe: 16   00:02:19  7902kN
>>1.c8D+ Txc8 2.Txc8+ Kg7 3.Tc6 f6 4.Ke6 Kg6 5.Tc1 Kg5 6.Tg1+ Kf4 7.Th1 f5
>>  +-  (4.44)   Tiefe: 17   00:03:16  11903kN
>>
>>(Nemeth, Privat 09.01.2006)
>>
>>Surprise! Rybka can win! :-)
>
>Now Rybka 1.01 Preview 2 32-bit!!
>
>
>r6k/2PK1p2/7p/8/2R5/8/8/8 w - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Rybka 1.01 Preview 2 32-bit:
>
>1.Ta4 Txa4 2.c8D+ Kg7 3.Dc3+ f6 4.Dg3+ Kh7 5.Dd3+ Kg7 6.Kc7 Ta5 7.Dd7+ Kg6
>  +-  (4.37)   Tiefe: 14   00:00:56  2821kN
>1.c8D+ Txc8 2.Txc8+ Kg7 3.Ke7 h5 4.Tc2 f5 5.Tg2+ Kh6 6.Ke6 f4 7.Tf2 h4
>  +-  (4.42)   Tiefe: 14   00:01:00  3055kN
>1.c8D+ Txc8 2.Txc8+ Kg7 3.Ke7 h5 4.Tc2 Kg6 5.Tc6+ Kf5 6.Tc7 h4 7.Kxf7 Kf4
>  +-  (4.42)   Tiefe: 15   00:01:11  3679kN
>1.c8D+ Txc8 2.Txc8+ Kg7 3.Tc6 f6 4.Ke6 Kg6 5.Tc2 Kg5 6.Tc5+ Kg6 7.Tc1 Kg5
>  +-  (4.57)   Tiefe: 16   00:02:02  6377kN
>
>(Nemeth, Privat 09.01.2006)
>
>Oh, Rybka 1.01 Preview 2 32-bit can wins!
>
>Timecontrol:
>
>Shredder will perhaps win in Blitz but draws in a rapid game on my PC.
>Rybka will perhaps draws in Blitz but win in a rapid game on my PC.
>
>Where I am wrong?
>
>ED.

Shredder clearly need tablebases to avoid Ra4 in a reasonable time

Here is shredder9 without tablebases on A3000 and it needs almost an hour to
avoid Ra4(note that Rg4 is also a winning move and it is mate in at most 23
moves based on analysis with tablebases)

New game
[D]r6k/2PK1p2/7p/8/2R5/8/8/8 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Shredder 9 UCI:

1.c8Q+
  +-  (3.86)   Depth: 1/3   00:00:00
1.c8Q+
  +-  (4.89)   Depth: 1/4   00:00:00
1.c8Q+
  +-  (4.89)   Depth: 1/4   00:00:00
1.c8Q+ Rxc8
  +-  (4.89)   Depth: 2/4   00:00:00
1.c8Q+ Rxc8 2.Rxc8+ Kg7
  +-  (4.89)   Depth: 3/4   00:00:00
1.c8R+
  +-  (4.90)   Depth: 3/6   00:00:00
1.c8R+ Rxc8 2.Rxc8+ Kg7 3.Ke7
  +-  (4.90)   Depth: 3/6   00:00:00
1.c8R+ Rxc8 2.Rxc8+ Kg7 3.Rc5 Kf6
  +-  (4.67)   Depth: 4/8   00:00:00
1.c8R+ Rxc8 2.Rxc8+ Kg7 3.Rc5 Kf6 4.Rc6+ Kg5
  +-  (4.68)   Depth: 5/9   00:00:00
1.c8R+ Rxc8 2.Rxc8+ Kg7 3.Rc5 Kg6 4.Rc6+ Kg5 5.Ke7
  +-  (4.77)   Depth: 6/11   00:00:00  3kN
1.c8R+ Rxc8
  +-  (4.52)   Depth: 7/13   00:00:00  6kN
1.c8R+ Rxc8 2.Kxc8
  +-  (4.52)   Depth: 7/13   00:00:00  7kN
1.c8R+ Rxc8 2.Rxc8+ Kg7 3.Kd6 Kg6 4.Rc1
  +-  (4.62)   Depth: 8/15   00:00:00  15kN
1.c8R+ Rxc8 2.Rxc8+ Kg7 3.Kd6 h5 4.Rc3 Kf6 5.Rh3 Kg5 6.Ke5
  +-  (4.55)   Depth: 9/20   00:00:00  30kN
1.c8R+ Rxc8 2.Rxc8+ Kg7 3.Ke7 f5 4.Rf8 Kg6 5.Ke6 h5 6.Rf6+ Kg5 7.Rxf5+ Kg4
  +-  (4.66)   Depth: 10/17   00:00:01  48kN
1.c8R+ Rxc8 2.Rxc8+ Kg7 3.Ke7 h5 4.Rf8 h4 5.Rxf7+ Kg6 6.Rf1 Kg5 7.Ke6 Kg4
  +-  (4.70)   Depth: 11/19   00:00:01  78kN
1.c8R+ Rxc8 2.Rxc8+ Kg7 3.Ke7 h5 4.Rf8 h4 5.Rxf7+ Kg6 6.Ke6 Kg5 7.Rf2 h3 8.Ke5
  +-  (4.70)   Depth: 12/19   00:00:02  123kN
1.c8R+ Rxc8 2.Rxc8+ Kg7 3.Kd6 Kf6 4.Rc3 Kg5 5.Rf3 f6 6.Ke6 h5 7.Rg3+ Kf4 8.Rh3
Kg5
  +-  (4.72)   Depth: 13/21   00:00:03  225kN
1.c8R+ Rxc8 2.Rxc8+ Kg7 3.Ke7 h5 4.Rf8 h4 5.Rxf7+ Kg6 6.Ke6 Kh5 7.Rh7+ Kg4 8.Rh8
h3 9.Rg8+
  +-  (4.61)   Depth: 14/24   00:00:04  396kN
1.Ra4
  +-  (4.62)   Depth: 14/34   00:00:04  596kN
1.Ra4 Rxa4 2.c8Q+ Kg7 3.Qc3+ f6 4.Qg3+ Kh7 5.Qb3 Ra7+ 6.Ke6 Kg7 7.Qg3+
  +-  (4.96)   Depth: 14/34   00:00:04  788kN
1.Ra4 Rxa4
  +-  (5.21)   Depth: 15/34   00:00:05  1043kN
1.Ra4 Rxa4 2.c8Q+ Kg7 3.Qc3+ Kg8 4.Qc6 Ra7+ 5.Ke8 Kg7 6.Qg2+ Kh7 7.Qc2+ Kh8
  +-  (5.27)   Depth: 15/36   00:00:05  1480kN
1.Ra4 Rxa4 2.c8Q+ Kg7 3.Qc3+ f6 4.Qg3+ Kh7 5.Qd3+ Kg7 6.Ke6 Ra7 7.Qc3
  +-  (5.37)   Depth: 16/40   00:00:06  2454kN
1.Ra4 Rxa4 2.c8Q+ Kg7 3.Qc3+ f6 4.Qg3+ Kh7 5.Qd3+ Kg7 6.Ke6 Ra7 7.Qc3 Kh7 8.Qc2+
Kg7 9.Qc3 Kh7 10.Qc2+ Kg7 11.Qc3
  +-  (5.40)   Depth: 17/37   00:00:06  3579kN
1.Ra4 Rxa4 2.c8Q+ Kg7 3.Qc3+ Kg8 4.Qc6 Ra7+ 5.Ke8 Ra5 6.Qxh6 Ra8+ 7.Ke7 Ra7+
8.Kd8 Ra8+ 9.Kc7 Ra7+ 10.Kb6 Re7 11.Qg5+ Kf8 12.Kc5 Rd7 13.Qf6
  +-  (5.48)   Depth: 18/44   00:00:14  10430kN
1.Ra4 Rxa4 2.c8Q+ Kg7 3.Qc3+ Kg8 4.Qc6 Ra7+ 5.Ke8 Ra5 6.Qxh6 Ra8+ 7.Ke7 Ra7+
8.Kd8 Ra8+ 9.Kc7 Ra7+ 10.Kb6 Re7 11.Qg5+ Kf8 12.Kc5 Re1
  +-  (5.49)   Depth: 19/45   00:00:21  15376kN
1.Ra4 Rxa4 2.c8Q+ Kg7 3.Qc3+ Kg8 4.Qc6 Ra7+ 5.Ke8 Ra5 6.Qxh6 Ra8+ 7.Ke7 Ra7+
8.Kd8 Ra8+ 9.Kc7 Ra7+ 10.Kc8 Ra8+ 11.Kb7 Ra2 12.Kc7
  +-  (5.48)   Depth: 20/48   00:00:50  37836kN
1.Ra4 Rxa4 2.c8Q+ Kg7 3.Qc3+ Kg8 4.Qc6 Ra7+ 5.Ke8 Ra5 6.Qxh6 Ra8+ 7.Ke7 Ra7+
8.Kd8 Ra5 9.Qf6 Ra4
  +-  (5.54)   Depth: 21/48   00:01:09  51986kN
1.Ra4 Rxa4 2.c8Q+ Kg7 3.Qc3+ Kg8 4.Qc6 Ra7+ 5.Ke8 Ra5 6.Qxh6 Ra8+ 7.Ke7 Ra7+
8.Kd8 Ra8+ 9.Kc7 Ra7+ 10.Kb6 Re7 11.Kc5 Re6 12.Qg5+ Kf8 13.Kd5 Rg6
  +-  (5.56)   Depth: 22/52   00:01:50  83070kN
1.Ra4 Rxa4 2.c8Q+ Kg7 3.Qc3+ Kg8 4.Qc6 Ra7+ 5.Ke8 Ra5 6.Qxh6 Re5+ 7.Kd7 Re6
8.Qg5+
  +-  (5.57)   Depth: 23/53   00:04:02  187102kN
1.Ra4 Rxa4 2.c8Q+ Kg7 3.Qc3+ Kg8 4.Qg3+ Kf8
  +-  (5.58)   Depth: 24/55   00:09:15  435128kN
1.Ra4 Rxa4 2.c8Q+ Kg7 3.Qc3+ Kg8 4.Qc6 Ra7+ 5.Ke8 Ra5 6.Qd6 Rf5 7.Qxh6 Re5+
8.Kd7
  +-  (5.58)   Depth: 25/57   00:26:00  1209979kN
1.Ra4 Rxa4 2.c8Q+ Kg7 3.Qc3+ Kg8 4.Qg3+ Kf8 5.Qb8+ Kg7 6.Qb2+ Kg8 7.Qg2+ Kf8
8.Qc6 Ra7+ 9.Kd8 Ra5
  +-  (5.59)   Depth: 26/60   00:41:36  1941061kN
1.Rg4
  +-  (5.60)   Depth: 26/60   00:44:32  2075449kN
1.Rg4
  +-  (5.95)   Depth: 26/60   00:44:51  2089743kN

(,  09.01.2006)




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