Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Noomen matches comparing Rybka Beta 9 Neutral and Optimistic

Author: Vasik Rajlich

Date: 02:14:42 01/13/06

Go up one level in this thread


On January 12, 2006 at 09:33:04, Albert Silver wrote:

>
>>>>>>>Noomen-RybkaB9Neutral-Fruit22  2006
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>1   Rybka 1.01 Beta 9 32-bit  2900  +6   +34/-21/=25 58.13%   46.5/80
>>>>>>>2   Fruit 2.2                 2850  -6   +21/-34/=25 41.88%  33.5/80
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The GUI said Rybka performed 56 Elo over Fruit 2.2 using the Neutral settings.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Noomen-RybkaB9Optimistic-Fruit22  2006
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>1   Rybka 1.01 Beta 9 32-bit  2900  +52  +36/-13/=31 64.38%  51.5/80
>>>>>>>2   Fruit 2.2                 2850  -52  +13/-36/=31 35.63%  28.5/80
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Here the GUI said Rybka performed 102 Elo over Fruit 2.2 using the Optimistic
>>>>>>>settings.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In order to gather more data I'll run a shorter Nunn2 match (only 40 games)
>>>>>>>against Gambit Fruit 4bx, which had been the first Beta's toughest opponent in
>>>>>>>the Nunn2 set aside from Fruit 2.2 in my testing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The rating of 2850 for Fruit was taken from the latest SSDF list, and Rybka's
>>>>>>>2900 was chosen arbitrarily.
>>>>>It is also possible that optimistic is simply better against weaker players when
>>>>>neutral is better against stronger players or players of the same strength.
>>>>>
>>>>>The way to test it is to give fruit more time(in case of ponder off) or better
>>>>>hardware in case of ponder on) and to test both optimistic and neutral.
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>Another possibility (which we will test with Beta 10) is that optimistic is
>>>>better in better positions. I will try an "adaptive" approach, where if the
>>>>previous iteration gave a score above a section threshold, an optimistic setting
>>>>is used.
>>>>
>>>>Vas
>>>
>>>
>>>Maybe, maybe not. Note that in the above results, Optimistic only won two more
>>>games than Neutral. The biggest difference is that it lost far fewer.
>>>
>>>                                       Albert
>>
>>Indeed, maybe I will look at that when all the data is ready.
>>
>>The adaptive approach is something which makes some sense to me. It will work if
>>it's true that in better positions, you are more likely to find a move which
>>becomes stronger with a deeper search.
>>
>>Yes, it's a mouthful - I hope it makes sense :)
>>
>>Vas
>
>I understood fine, but after a little thought, taking into consideration the
>above results, I am not sure the logic follows. The idea as I understand it, is
>to basically be more attentive to one's own winning possibilities when winning,
>and the opponent's when worse. At first view this seems entirely logical, but is
>it? Looking for one's own 'winning' possibilities really means moves that appear
>to possibly improve one's position substantially. How much is that threshold?
>What if what is happening above (fewer losses) isn't so much that it found
>winning moves for the opponent and sidestepped them, but that it found ways to
>improve its position, even when worse, that the Neutral setting missed? Perhaps
>its best defense isn't greater paranoia towards the opponent's chances, but
>simply its superior evaluation.
>
>                                       Albert

If the idea fails, it will be because of an explanation like this. Certainly, a
lot of chess tactics improve bad positions, or degrade good positions. The
question is what is the most frequent, and to what extent. Search is basically a
statistical thing, you want to search more promising things first.

Vas



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.