Author: Uri Blass
Date: 15:28:52 01/13/06
Go up one level in this thread
On January 13, 2006 at 18:12:17, Dann Corbit wrote: >On January 13, 2006 at 17:32:10, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On January 13, 2006 at 16:54:55, Reinhard Scharnagl wrote: >> >>>On January 13, 2006 at 15:58:57, Robert Hollay wrote: >>> >>>Hi Robert, >>> >>>>Shareware. Test SMIRF free until 2006-01-31. >>> >>>the beta still shows to be intended to become shareware. But I am not sure >>>about that. There is no big interest facing those Rybka or top-engine hype. >>>About since a year there repeatedly have been unrestricted beta versions, >>>limited in lifetime to secure vanishing of old beta prereleases. But the echo >>>has been very small and only one person asked, how to purchase a full version. >>> >>>>What will happen after that date? >>> >>>The beta version still could be tested, but the program would answer nearly >>>immediately then, not reaching higher thinking levels, nag screens included. >>> >>>>I looked around the SMIRF site, but didn't quite understand it's licencing >>>>model. Part of the text is written in German, especially the shareware licence. >>>>What should we do to get it permanently? >>> >>>A sold / donated version would have texts also translated into English. >>> >>>SMIRF is now in a stage, where it should be rewritten completely to dense its >>>data structure and to incoorporate made experiences. I am against open source >>>programs for end-user applications like a chess engine. Arguing for that had >>>raised a banning from the most visited german chess forum. I think, that >>>freeware chess programs are dumping the whole scene, killing any respect and >>>refund of creative programmers. >> >>It is correct that free chess programs clearly make it harder for programmers to >>make money from chess engines but it seems to be also correct that free chess >>programs help to improve the level of the best programs. > >I doubt this very much. > >There would never have been any money in mediocre chess engines with or without >free ones. I believe that free engines stimulate the market. In fact, I am >pretty sure I would never have bought any professional engines if it were not >for the free ones to get me interested in them. > >Suppose that there are no free engines. Your program will still have to beat >Junior, Shredder, Fritz, CM, etc. to be interesting as far as strength goes. > >And if you try to sell on features you will need a snazzy interface and a good >database and hundreds of thousands of dollars for marketing. > >I think that the engines like Deep Sjeng, Ruffian, Rybka, Ktulu, etc. would not >sell at all if it were not for the hobbyist market created by people who cruise >forums like this one. I disagree here. Deep Sjeng and ruffian and Ktulu probably do not have many buyers because correspondence players who want to buy only the best 2 engines do not buy it when rybka may have more buyers than all of Deep Sjeng,Ruffian and Ktulu. I get if you ask Lokasoft, almost all of his sales will >go to people who he recognized the names of (just a guess). > >>There was a long time with little improvement when shredder dominated and top >>programmers could not improve their program even by 50 elo per year and suddenly >>we find some programs that are better than shredder(rybka,commercial fruit and >>fritz and probably hiarcs and the toga1.1 that is based on fruit). > >The improvement always goes in jumps and starts. The introduction of Junior was >like that. Junior came out of nowhere as an amateur engine to be the best in >the world. Junior never leaded the ssdf and I know no rating list with many games when it leaded. It was fairly similar for Chess Tiger (which occupied the SSDF top >spot for a short while). So Rybka is not an exception. I guess that a careful >examination of all the big movers and shakers will show that Rybka is the rule. I think that rybka is clearly an exception if you compare it to programs of 2003-2005 There was only little improvement of less than 50 elo from shredder7.04 to shredder9 when the improvement from shredder9 to rybka1.2 is probably going to be more than 100 elo. Uri
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