Author: Terry McCracken
Date: 01:15:32 01/14/06
Go up one level in this thread
On January 13, 2006 at 23:06:35, Zappa wrote: >I stopped over to read CTF for a bit earlier today, and something hit me: I >actually found interesting posts to read, and that I hadn't really been that >interested in anything written at CCC for some time. So I started thinking >about this, and I started to realize that the composition of CCC has changed >quite a bit over the last year or so. > >Back when I joined (feels like ages ago, even though its only a few years) there >were basically 4 groups of people at CCC: the optimizers (headed by Gerd) >posting on better methods to compute LSB and hardware and such things, the chess >experts, who were primarily interested having the computer analyze their games >and posted a lot of test positions, the authors (headed by the always-arguing >Bob and Vincent) who talked about search methods and eval tricks, and the >testers, who ran matches and posted the results. Somehow over the past year the >composition of the forum has shifted dramatically towards the testers, and >lately I feel that a good 50% of the posts here have been "I ran a tournament >with some engines under Y conditions", "Great work X, you're a cool dude", "No, >X is an idiot, because he used conditions Y! What a tool!". > >I personally was never that interested in test results; I joined for the other >types of posts, and they have simply disappeared. Bob has posted about 10 times >in the past year. Bob has been busy, but he's still here and is a model of what a programmer and scientist can be. He's going strong after 36 years, and that's no mean accomplishment! If this place is going downhill then we need more than ever! Ditto for Vincent. GCP only posts to correct idiocies. Gerd >barely posts any more. Fierz is gone. Fabien is gone. Bruce is gone. About >the only people left over from the halcyon days of yore are Gunther and Tord. >And two people do not a forum make. Maybe not, but one less valuable poster will diminish this forum further. Please reconsider. > >I am not sure why CCC has changed as it has. I have always resented the Deep >Blue team for insinuating that computer chess was solved in 1995, but has it >been solved in 2006? I haven't really heard of any new engines. When I look at >the participants list for CCT8, every single engine played there last year. I >know its still early, but are there simply no new engine authors? And if so, >why? Has it become too easy? Is everyone only interested in cloning Fruit now? > Or do people feel that CC is simply solved now? A laptop with Fritz can beat >GMs nowadays. I posted earlier that I felt that the big ideas of the 90s >(mobility, null move) had basically been worked to death and that computer chess >was in sore need of new ideas. Perhaps we just _don't need_ new ideas, and all >that is left is a gentle refinement of the old ones. I don't know. No, we need fresh ideas, coming from fresh minds, your one of these. People like yourself make this forum work, even if it is in a slump, then now, more than ever. I could leave and not be missed or needed. This isn't true in your case, the forum needs you! > >I know that about 10,000 people will say "but RYBKA!", so let me preemptively >answer them: Rybka's strength is tactical, not positional. Take a look at Marc >Lacrosse's post. I do not say this to derogate Rybka - I don't know what he is >doing in search, but it must be pretty amazing - but I have never viewed tactics >as the primary problem in computer chess. As computers get faster, the tactics >will take care of themselves naturally. Rybka has new or at least improved ideas, Zappa has made a a significant impact as well. You've made a difference. I do feel that Rybka albeit very tactical, is also very positional, at least in some positions where tactics alone are not enough. I say this as I've played, and played over thousands of chess games and Rybka made me sit up and take notice. It emulated master style play in a way I don't often see. So new things are happening. > >Anyway, I don't really know what the future of computer chess will be, but I do >know that I personally will probably not be reading CCC much in the future, and >I guess I'm arrogant enough to make a big post out of it. I'm not leaving out >of disgust at bad treatment or anything, so I might stop by from time to time >(perhaps at Torino), but I won't be reading this forum regularly any more. > >Good luck to all, > >anthony This aircraft called CCC has lost too many important bolts and rivets. You may be the one holding it in place, we don't want this forum to Crash'n' Burn, please give it a little more thought and time. Whatever you decide, All the Best Anthony! Terry
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