Author: Albert Silver
Date: 08:18:46 01/15/06
Go up one level in this thread
On January 15, 2006 at 11:13:20, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>On January 15, 2006 at 11:04:26, Albert Silver wrote:
>
>>On January 15, 2006 at 10:57:25, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>
>>>On January 15, 2006 at 10:23:33, Albert Silver wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 15, 2006 at 10:08:23, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On January 15, 2006 at 09:38:02, Albert Silver wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On January 15, 2006 at 09:22:48, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On January 15, 2006 at 08:43:13, Albert Silver wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On January 15, 2006 at 02:07:06, Marc Lacrosse wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Lacrosse's analysis showed above all that in the 87 positions he tested, that
>>>>>>>>>>Shredder 9 and Rybka scored 57% given 10 seconds, and Fruit and Toga and company
>>>>>>>>>>are much weaker with so little time, and thus much weaker in blitz.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Albert
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Just a little point, Albert.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>What my little experience shows is not an argument for telling that engine A is
>>>>>>>>>better or worse than engine B at faster or slower time control.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>What I precisely did is the following :
>>>>>>>>>let say :
>>>>>>>>>- engine A solves "x" positions in 180 seconds and
>>>>>>>>>- engine B solves "y" positions in 18o seconds.
>>>>>>>>>I recorded:
>>>>>>>>>- what percentage of "x" engine A had already solved after 10 seconds
>>>>>>>>>- what percentage of "y" engine B had already solved after 10 seconds
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>So each engine is compared at 10 seconds with the number of positions that it
>>>>>>>>>will solve _itself_ at 180 seconds
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>So when I record that Rybka has a 57% score and Fruit a 39%, this does _not_ say
>>>>>>>>>that Rybka is "stronger" or "weaker" than Fruit, and we could have a much weaker
>>>>>>>>>1800 elo engine getting a 80% (or a 15%) score in the same test.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>What the little test tends to show is just that rybka has already shown 57% of
>>>>>>>>>its own analysis capacity at 10 seconds whereas Fruit has a larger margin of
>>>>>>>>>improvement (compared with itself) when given a larger time control.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Actually, it doesn't even show what you suggest, that Rybka has already shown
>>>>>>>>57% of it's capacity in 10 seconds, and as a consequence I'm afraid your
>>>>>>>>conclusions are incorrect.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The positions you tested with have definite solutions I presume, thus once that
>>>>>>>>solution is reached there is no room for improvement. How can you claim that
>>>>>>>>Rybka cannot improve its analysis when the positions you gave it cannot be
>>>>>>>>improved upon after the solutions are found?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Please read again: "larger margin". Does it mean "cannot improve"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It can't have a 'larger' margin of improvement if it is being compared to
>>>>>>something with no possible margin.
>>>>>
>>>>>This is another claim but of course you cant say anything at all if the problems
>>>>>are too easy to solve.
>>>>
>>>>It makes no difference whatsoever.
>>>>
>>>>>- Let me repeat what i wrote to Marc. His little
>>>>>experiment and discussion proves that he has done something valuable.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Ok, if the value of the experiment is in the debates that it created, then fine.
>>>>But the numbers and results have no value whatsoever if one wants to draw any
>>>>conclusions from them.
>>>>
>>>
>>>No way. You cant say that. This WHATSOEVER is wrong and destructive towards
>>>Marc.
>>
>>Not only can I say it, I even showed why. What does Marc have to do with this?
>>I'm talking about the data and the inferences drawn.
>>
>Ok, if you think that it wouldnt bother him if he had made experiments without
>any value whatsoever - then you can make such conclusions. I agree.
It doesn't matter if it bothers him. It isn't about him. If the data or
conclusions are bogus then that is what matters, and not whether his ego would
be wounded by revealing this. Especially since some people clearly did draw
conclusions from it.
Albert
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